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Comment by superuser2 | Hacker News Reader

Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability? It seems so strange that the market is willing to pay ~$40-$80k for a car totally indifferent to its engineering quality. If I were to own a luxury car, I'd want to know its engineering is rock-solid first and foremost. I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. Maybe that's just a techie thing, though.

Volvo has been notorious for extremely difficult-to-diagnose and expensive-to-repair electrical system problems for at least a decade.

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Where is Volvo considered a luxury car brand? Here in the UK I don't know anyone who would call it that.

In North America Volvo has definitely evolved in to a luxury car brand, if just by the prices of their cars.

AFAIK the cheapest American Volvo (S60) is about the same price as a BMW 3-Series.

In many countries around the world it is definitely a luxury brand.

I've always thought, if I was rich, I would hire one or more developers who's job was to educate me on software (empowering me), and write and run software I was interested in. Wonder why I haven't heard of any rich people doing that?

Stephen Wolfram does that.

Your comment reminds me of the question: The Greeks invented the steam engine, why didn't they have an industrial revolution?

One answer is that slave labor made a steam engine unneeded: any work the engine could do was already being done by slaves. Similarly, Cicero had no need for a printing press, any time he wanted to print something (election pamphlets, for example), he had an army of slaves copy it over and over by hand.

So maybe rich people have the same thing: they don't need someone to code them a train schedule app (or whatever to empower them), they just tell someone to figure out their schedule for them.

I think the simpler answer is they didn't invent a practical steam engine.

Thx. great idea.

> I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol.

As a machine and as a symbol aren't necessarily independent of each other. Being less reliable and more expensive to fix can make it more prestigious in some cases:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Clas...

Toyota had it's fair share of bad software design issues (Lexus is a division of Toyota)...

Putting this kind of safety-related issue aside, the first purchaser probably won't keep the car long enough to have any real problems (at this price level it's probably a lease). Even if they do, the dealer will give them a loaner (and may even pick up the car) so problems aren't much of an inconvenience.

It's much more of an issue for those of us who like to buy several year old luxury cars -- they have become much harder and more expensive to repair in the last 10 years or so.

Can you explain "it's usually a lease?" Doesn't it defeat the purpose of signaling wealth if you don't actually own it? How common actually is leasing at this price level?

How can you tell who leased and who bought his vehicle as you cruise down the freeway?

It's simply that no one can tell whether or not you own the car, just by seeing you drive by in it, or seeing it in your driveway...

The true "equity" in a great number of cars on the road--those financed, or leased, is held by a bank, institution or business....

Remember the old false-fronted buildings in the frontier towns portrayed in numerous westerns...?

The wherewithal of those business was likely much smaller than the storefront indicated...

In other words, some consumers will go to great lengths to project "success" when in actuality they haven't quite "made it"...leasing, even renting, a luxury car for that reason is quite common around the world...

Not sure where they got their data from, but see https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-do-people... -- claims 67% leasing for MB, and 70% for BMW.

It's common because people can't really afford them :-), and don't want to finance the full amount if they're not going to keep the vehicle past 3 years anyway.

I don't follow the line of reasoning that leasing is cheaper than buying outright. Via a lease you still pay interest on the full value of the asset, plus a negotiated cost having a relationship to depreciation. If leases were bad deals for the auto manufacturers they would probably stop writing them.

One nice thing that a lease offers is a defined cost. If your luxury sedan turns out to be a basket case, the warranty covers the problems during the lease, and you can simply wash your hands of it at the end of the term. Trying to sell a depreciated-to-$40K car with problems is not easy.

> If leases were bad deals for the auto manufacturers they would probably stop writing them.

Like 0% financing, it's possible that they're irrational from the perspective of a financial institution but overall good for the manufacturer because more cars get sold.

Certainly agree that leasing won't be cheaper in the long run in most cases. But in the short run it will get you a lower monthly payment, and that's all many care about.

Also agree that leasing helps fix the cost. Besides reliability issues, you win if depreciation is higher then was estimated up front (the one time I leased, the car ended up worth several thousand less then the final balloon payment so I simply turned it back in).

Leasing is cheaper if you have to pay VAT (10% of the sale price in Washington) - you only pay it your lease payments, as opposed to the full price of the car.

If you want to drive a new car every three years, and you buy & resell, VAT will cost you a lot more then a lease.

Apparently there is a huge market for lending things to rich people. Art, fine wine, cars, houses. Being rich gives you vast access to credit.

> Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability

The Mercedes-Benz/Puch G-Class hasn't changed that much since 1979. It's a mid-size four-wheel drive luxury SUV, a real cross country vehicle. Deer hunters, various military, VIPs, presidents and the pope, many use the G-Class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class

I went and found a few images of this car and variations of it.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2015...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/g-class/209746d1...

http://olive-drab.com/images/id_mb_gclass_03_700.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qAO8Ma4i...

http://spintires-mods.lt/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mercedes... (CGI)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DobFdTEMh3Y/TDoii7WEbZI/AAAAAAAABB...

http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/steyr-puch/steyr-puch-g-290/ste...

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/testdrive/gallery/108...

http://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay1416702369969...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/bc/16/4abc163c1...

http://www.papercraftsquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/D... (Paper Model)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3d/84/04/3d84040cc...

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---M1k3rjO...

Many luxury car shoppers are not that concerned with reliability since they plan on only owning the car for a few years. 3 year leases are common and even those who buy a vehicle outright may trade in long before reliability becomes a real concern.

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