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Comment by GreaterFool | Hacker News Reader

This is interesting:

"Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession."

Am I reading this right? Apple, if they chose to, can make a version of iOS that disables security features and encryption and load it onto existing phone even though the phone is locked and encrypted?

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> Apple, if they chose to, can make a version of iOS that disables security features and encryption and load it onto existing phone even though the phone is locked and encrypted?

As I understand it, the FBI wants Apple to create a version of iOS that would disable the current feature where the data is deleted after more than 10 failed passwords attempts. This would allow the FBI to brute force the password.

That doesn't explain how they would get the update on to a locked and encrypted device, even if it existed.

It seems like it would be easy enough to crack it open and replace the OS boot data.

That being said, I really WANT the data in this case. I hope Apple finds a compromise where they can help get this specific data without risking leaking a compromised OS.

> I hope Apple finds a compromise where they can help get this specific data without risking leaking a compromised OS.

I want pharmaceuticals without side effects, and real doughnuts that don't make you fat.

Seriously, you are asking for "A" and "not-A" in one sentence. Take your pick. Are you willing to get this one phone unlocked so badly that you would be OK with nobody having security? Because that's what you're asking for, whether you realize it or not.

Perhaps you're not technically deep enough to see other solutions.

Perhaps you are trying to disagree with a point by conflating it.

They want to use DFU to build a version that is loaded into RAM and run from RAM rather than Flash.

See other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11116439

Potentially, Apple cannot circumvent their own protections on some models (in software anyway), and could in others.

Thanks. This explains it. I was just thinking about my old Thinkpad X41. That had TPM module and hardware encryption. There's nothing that IBM or the TPM manufacturer could've done to decrypt it (unless the TPM module already had backdoors, haha). Latest iPhones are basically the same?

I don't get it. How would they be load the backdoor is the phone is still locked?

iTunes recovery mode? It allows to restore the OS, but also gives you other means to manipulate the device. Imagine if they simply hot-patch the lockscreen to allow any number of tries of password?

Recovery mode with DFU and the like results in a device wipe.

There are many ways to redo the firmware, but every single one of them, by design, requires wiping the phone to implement.

The outcome of entering DFU mode for most of us is a device wipe but this doesn't have to be the case for Apple.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11115945

You can reinstall a phone from recovery mode without erasing it.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201263

What I don't understand is why Apple could create such software but a hacker could not exploit it. I feel like that mean that there is already a backdoor.

Because you can only deploy it, when you have Apple's private key.

As you say, 'Apple could create'. It doesn't exist, what could the hacker even target?

And that's one of the main reason for Apple to say no to that.

There is no way that a backdoor like this could not be exploited by someone else if they found out the way to do it.

The other one is that there is no way the government can guarantee Apple to only use in the "right" cases after they have access to it.

I think the important word missing in that phrase is "any _future_ iPhone".

For existing devices I imagine that a hypothetical iOSX which removes the protections would require you to enter your passcode so the OS can decrypt the data and then re-encrypt them using the new backdoored option.

The last part actually surprises me too.

I think the ask is for a custom recovery mode tool / image.

See https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/DFU_Mode

Not same thing as an OS update.

Looking at the wording, seems to suggest they never state whether or not it is possible. It says "the FBI wants us to make", not what we can or cannot make. "Potential" doesn't mean certainty.

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