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Comment by misterrobot | Hacker News Reader

The worst part about Palantir is their ability to masquerade as this hip startup, as though working for them is as innocent as working for Imgur or Twitter or whatever. They recruit the hell out of MIT students, and it sucks seeing my friends interview for this incredibly shitty company that has openly said it won't go public since that would make running their business "very difficult" (hm, because you're doing reprehensible work perhaps?).

I wish people picked their jobs to match their ethics instead of the other way around. It makes me sad when I hear about my friends going to intern for this place.

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I know some engineers who work or worked there. Aside from the normal engineers (tools, backend, etc.), they are essentially high-priced tech consultants sent to companies and orgs that have no internal software talent at all, to help them analyze their (atrociously stored/managed) data. None of them work on anything shady. They essentially build web apps and backend apps to analyze and visualize data. Nothing vodoo military about it, although the military is a customer.

The pay actually isn't actually particularly high for SV standards. I think Facebook outpays them, for example - and Facebook is less selective than Palantir. But their reputation is that they're full of top engineers and you'll learn a ton there, and that's why the people I know work/worked there.

The downsides I've heard about are no work/life balance and fratty culture. Those are real downside, not the FUD about ethics.

> it won't go public since that would make running their business "very difficult" (hm, because you're doing reprehensible work perhaps?)

Well, more generally, anyone who has a nonstandard set of ethical beliefs, and is basing their company around that set of beliefs, can't really go public without their belief-set being thrown under the bus of their shareholders' belief-set.

For example, I've often considered starting a company in the game industry that actually hires experienced adults and treats them well, rather than hiring fresh college students and burning them out. I imagine, though, that if my hypothetical company became publicly-traded, I'd be forced to relinquish this policy in the name of short-sighted market competitiveness.

You could go the Google and Facebook route of having voting-class and non-voting class shares. Sergey and Larry, and Zuck still retain control of their companies.

Until they die, the company goes bankrupt, or it's subject to such a compelling buyout offer that they can't responsibly decline it.

Capitalism wins, eventually.

Interning for Palantir is a pretty big resume boost for college students, and they have one of the highest paying internships in the valley. There's some serious benefits to going to Palantir.

If you have the ability to intern at Palantir you have the ability to intern at any number of more responsible companies. Palantir has a bigger booth at the career fair, but I'd bet working at Apple or Uber is just as much of a resume boost at much less of a societal cost. (source: am a college student)

Interning at Apple or Uber has much more stiff competition though. The barrier to entry for Palantir is remarkably low considering their pay, it's not surprising that college students apply for Palantir. (Source: am college senior)

Will they hire you if you smoke pot? I hear college students sometimes do that.

Thiel has an entire cannabis investment club.

Just rail on the hypocrisy if confronted.

Apple and Uber are not as much of a resume boost (in Silicon Valley, to a SV recruiter). Palantir is sort of on the level of quant finance / Dropbox 2 years ago.

Apple and Uber are hiring like crazy and so it's quite a lot easier to get in there as an intern than at Palantir (which is more selective).

That's surprising, as they're known for being incredibly shady and have a pretty bad rep. They might pay a lot, but it's because it's less desirable to work for the Evil Empire.

Maybe they are useful for students to signal their lack of ethics to employers? “Look, they once worked at Palantir, so they’ll have no problems doing whatever shady stuff we tell them to!”

Sorry I can't stop myself:

Interning as a prison ward in Auschwitz is a pretty big resume boost for anyone who served in a prison system, and Nazis have one of the highest paying internships abroad. There's some serious benefits of becoming a prison ward in Auschwitz.

That's how I see this parasite company.

Curious to know what Palantir are doing that you have a such an issue with - surely they aren't committing genocide?

Directly not, but to say the company is adding any benefits to our society would be a long stretch.

That's a rather large downgrade to the previous accusations. From evil company to a company with no benefit to mankind. I think you can say that about a lot of peoples jobs - what's your point?

It's a big resume boost yes. The pay is competitive but not especially higher than any other top companies/startups, though.

What makes them a shitty company? Why is their work reprehensible?

They have one of the worst work/balances in the valley, fratty/kool aid culture, claim to be "making a difference" but really what they actually work on would be a major downside for most normal people. For example, they make targeting software and are very likely responsible for assassinations by the US and when we disappear people. They're also working on big brother tech if that's your thing.

What is targeting software? How are they responsible for assassinations and disappearing people? What is this big brother tech?

Their YouTube channel has 100's of videos that show what they do. The one that blew my mind: GovCon7: Introduction to Palantir: https://youtu.be/f86VKjFSMJE

First of all:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies#Contro...

Also:

> When intruders from the hacker group Anonymous gained access to thousands of emails stored on the servers of the security firm HB Gary Federal, the emails revealed that Palantir had worked with HB Gary Federal to develop proposals for attacking WikiLeaks’ infrastructure, blackmailing its supporters and identifying donors.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/02/09/did-sec...

There was also the sex scandal with their founder and a Stanford student: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/the-stanford-unde...

This thread on HN also has some discussion about their government and military contracts:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11036156

The sex accusations ended up being baseless, and Stanford reversed their ban on Lonsdale entering the campus (and Stanford has a lower evidentiary standard than the courts)

Also, your quote doesn't appear in that article at all any more.

Sorry here's another link:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/06/07/startup...

Second to last paragraph.

As for the sex accusations, who knows what really happened. Though the article doesn't exactly paint him- edit- either of them- in a flattering light. It does show poor judgement for the dude to get involved with a student he is mentoring. Then again, he also stumped on the campaign trail for Rand Paul of all people and also pals around with Mitt Romney.

Look, my point is, it's not valid to bring up the sex accusations, because they were proved to be false.

"Targetting software" (as in, software that actually points a weapon at a target) most likely isn't something that Palantir is involved in.

However, data mining for target leads (e.g. through cell phone, financial, social network + other data) would be much more up their alley.

On one hand, Palantir have (at best) questionable connections and I wouldn't be a rush to work for them. On the other, with the level of pay/benefits they provide, I'm not surprised they can find people without similar qualms (or people who overlook or aren't aware of them).

I won't share specifics (as they aren't mine to share), but I have a friend working for Palantir overseas. Once essential benefits (e.g. accommodation) are factored in, his salary is north of six figures (GBP). For someone only a few years past university, I imagine that sort of offer is difficult to refuse.

It's cool to get a 6 fig GBP salary but tbh, assuming what I've heard about the working hours there is true, I could still just do a combo of freelancing and contracting and make way, way more cash.

Some business owners just don't want shareholders inserting their opinion where it isn't wanted. If they don't need the funding, there's no reason to go public.

Careful, you're going to cause a VC to throw a tantrum.

Care to identify any of your concerns?

My wife is a student and looking for internship she will work for a company that helps people write about how they ran over than grandma if she gets a legal. Morality and ethics have a price always.

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