Comment by cryptnoob | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cryptnoob | Hacker News Reader

I passed the EIT exam, worked under professional engineers for four years, and obtained letters of recommendation from them, all so that I had the right to sit for the professional engineering exam. I then took that exam and passed it. I pay $200 per year to maintain my registered professional engineer status in my state. All this gives me the right to stamp legal documents as an engineer ... and be held legally accountable for designs that cause injury to others, either physical or financial. I wear a stainless steel ring on the little finger of my right hand that was given to me to remind me as I sign off on designs, that the safety of others is in my hands.

I am allowed to put on my business card, my website, and my consulting advertisements that I am an engineer. Theoretically, you are not, if you haven't done these things, and a case could be made that you should not be able to, just like you don't get to call yourself a doctor or a lawyer.

The term engineer has undergone serious deflation over the years, which is a shame. I don't see this trend suddenly reversing, so I don't lose sleep over it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't feel a little regretful over it's demise.

The term engineer has undergone serious deflation over the years

So, do railway engineers (as they are known in the USA and Canada) take the oath and wear the little ring? Or did that "serious deflation" you refer to start sometime around the birth of the railroad? ;)

I think the culprit here is not deflation of the language -- the language has always been ambiguous -- but rather inflation of the scope of engineering education. It's not just for P.E.s anymore. If you believe the term engineer should be restricted to P.E.s you should start by explaining that to every academic engineering department I've ever seen, all of which are happy to hand out "engineering degrees" to graduating "engineering students" who tend to be called "engineers" for short, whether or not they go on to get a P.E. (which, as you point out, is a lot more effort and a rather impressive accomplishment).

I literally had a Ph.D. in EE before I even heard the term "Professional Engineer". [1] Not because my school was training people to practice without a license, but because they're training people in skills -- like my old field, semiconductor laser engineering -- that don't require P.E. certification. Of every EE Ph.D. I know, I know of exactly one who actually got a P.E. certification.

And, only slightly off the subject, need I point out that quite a few Ph.Ds have "Doctor" as part of their name? It's quite common in many countries, including the USA. I don't do this, because I don't work in academia, and outside the academy one tends to get confused with an M.D., but according to this fun article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title)

you are required to use your academic title in certain legal situations in Austria, and German Ph.D.s tend to use the title all of the time.

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[1] Because my undergraduate degree was in physics. I presume that if I'd studied undergrad EE someone would have mentioned along the way that my B.S. wouldn't actually qualify me to design a commercially-available table lamp without adult supervision.

[1] Because my undergraduate degree was in physics. I presume that if I'd studied undergrad EE someone would have mentioned along the way that my B.S. wouldn't actually qualify me to design a commercially-available table lamp without adult supervision.

Some schools are probably better, but I left my university after learning from graduated students that the dream course I was looking forward to, where all of the requirements would make sense and I would finally be told what I can do with my newfound knowledge, didn't exist. One friend of mine said that his BSEE degree entirely drained his confidence to accomplish anything in the real world. One could argue that a university degree should be purely academic, but this school's program wasn't too helpful there, either.

To sum up, the only ways I know of to realize that you are or aren't qualified to do something are to try it until you get rich or get sued, or work with someone else who already has.

> The term engineer has undergone serious deflation over the years

Sorry, but I don't buy that. The term 'engineer' has been around since the Renaissance. Licensed Professional Engineers have only been around since the 19th century.

Nobody is suggesting that just anybody should be allowed to call themselves a Professional Engineer (or the equivalent in various jurisdictions). The attempt in Quebec and a few other places to outlaw most common uses of a word that has been in the English lexicon for 6 or 7 centuries is, frankly, insane.

Out of curiosity, have you found that having a PE licence has been useful at all in your work?

I studied Software Engineering at an engineering school accredited by whatever organization regulates the practice of engineering in Ontario. I remember at a few points in the program, they made a point of saying that once we graduated, we could apply for a licence (after we spent time apprenticing), but it was never clear to me why having a PE licence would be useful. I don't know anyone from my graduating class that's bothered to apply for a licence either.

For one thing, in the US, you're not allowed to have an "Engineering" company without having a P.E. on board. Beyond that, I've come across a few positions here and there that require a P.E. It typically has more to do with legally needing a P.E. to supervise a project than simply wanting someone with that experience.

It really depends on the field. Mechanical and civil engineers are the most likely to get a PE, whereas electrical and computer engineers are IIRC the least likely. Mechanical and civil engineers are just more likely to be in situations where it's advantageous to have a PE. (Owning a small engineering services company, for example)

I completely agree with you. While I still haven't gotten around to getting my P.E. (and if I did, it would probably be more for fun than practicality), I share your sentiment. It is a shame. Probably won't change. But I don't lose sleep over it.

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