If other sites did this, maybe ad blocking wouldn't be so prevalent.
Privacy Badger (https://www.eff.org/privacybadger) blocks a bunch of stuff on StackOverflow.
Blocks Scripts:
www.google-analytics.com
edge.quantserve.com
b.scorecardresearch.com
Blocks Cookie Only:
ajax.googleapis.com
www.gravatar.com
i.stack.imgur.com
Blocks nothing:
cdn.sstatic.net
Add content relevancy is one part of the equation, but not allowing third parties to track my actions on your site is the other, more important part of the equation (to me at least). Privacy Badger is the only adBlocker I use (besides having flash not run automatically), so I will happily view ads that don't involve tracking me.
The only time I've heard "normal folks" talk about these sorts of things, its about how creepy they are, never once about "how that great ad was exactly what they wanted". Thats assuming any awareness on their part at all.
Silent ignorance/indifference isn't consent, apporval or desire. People who pretend it is are almost certainly making self serving arguements.
Essentially, users who block analytics become a net negative for many sites as they add no positive value to the site operator and are just a drain on resources. There are exceptions, of course, in the case of user-generated content participation where submitting content, making comments, etc may be a draw to revenue-generating visitors. But on many sites, that user blocking ads and analytics is only hurting the site operator. If it becomes more popular - say as the default setting in an ad blocker - I'd wager we'll have some sites start to block those users at some point in the future.
Which is ridiculous, because they're about as easy to game.
Then you are losing at the negotiation table and trying to blame "the users". Those advertisers are simply wrong. No 3rd party analytics service can provide more accurate data than server logs. None.
"I'd wager we'll have some sites start to block those users at some point in the future."
And I would wager that it won't help their business increase revenue or decrease expenses.
Also, advertisers don't trust site owners to report what's in their server logs accurately, when there is money on the line. It would be easy to cheat.
So that's why you need an independent third party.
Google Analytics provides information that goes far beyond what the server logs can tell you. The logs will give you the most accurate view of the requests to your server but that's all. You can't get insights about bounce rate, behavior, goal completion, conversion rate, etc. from server logs. To rely only on mining server logs would be a huge step backwards for a business.
[1]: http://piwik.org/docs/tracking-goals-web-analytics/
For anyone who wants to play with the demo: http://demo-log-analytics.piwik.org/index.php?module=CoreHom...
Most sites today also go far beyond basic pageviews and track all kinds of events on the page like scrolling rates, reading time, what other headlines you clicked or hovered over, etc. This is not possible without JS tracking.
This is very, very wrong. Parsing server logs can give you a lot of data but parsing the data directly from the client (ala Google analytics) can give you so, so much more. Data about the client itself, demographic information (beyond ip address locations) and information regarding their interests when hooked into a system that's present on many other sites.
Server logs are a great starting point but the amount of relevant data a third party service can give you is so great most are willing to make the tradeoff and use them. I'd rather have all analytics in house but that extra data can be invaluable.
In all honestly I would be fine losing some of the information that only comes from creating a dossier on a user and bringing the tracking in house it's just a lot of work and services like Google Analytics give that to you for free so it's hard to just ignore especially at a start-up.
For raw pageviews, sure, but try tracking a SPA with server logs, or seeing what the most common screen resolutions are, or seeing what percent of your visitors have Flash installed.
Only if those servers are personally managed by analytics experts.
Say what you will about GA and privacy issues, there's a reason why it's become so common place. Not just for site owners, but advertisers as well.
(That ignores of course that server logs are virtually useless for determining a user's behavior on a single page app. It's not the ONLY reason server logs aren't used, but perhaps is the most important reason.)
The state of website statistics is a sad one.
For some reason, though, we don't allow that sort of privacy violation in our actual lives.
However, most real-world businesses manage to do quite well even with our rude dismissals of their desire to track us.
[edit]
Nomi is a startup that does exactly this. They use open WiFi networks to harvest MAC addresses of cell phones and track people's locations that way.
The only way to "opt out" is to register your MAC address with them. (Aside from just disabling WiFi on your phone, of course).
Welcome to the future :(
Instead of waiting for an SSID beacon, they just broadcast their known networks and if one of them is in range, the AP will reply. It's all driven by user demand to connect to their WiFi network faster.
Also, AFIAK, this is required behaviour to join networks that don't broadcast their SSID (e.g. "hidden" networks).
I see two solutions to this problem, but neither are really tenable from a user perspective:
1) run the GPS all the time and geotag known APs[1]
2) leave the WiFi radio on all the time and passively listen for SSID broadcasts[2]
[1] doesn't work indoors, or if the location of an AP is changed (e.g. 4G hotspot). Will also have significant impact on battery runtime, and likely to be abused by ad companies
[2] will have significant impact on battery runtime
Are you sure you're not being tracked? There are technologies like Prism[1] that allow stores to track people, where they go, how long they stay there, etc. On the lower-tech side, point cards[2] are also used to track purchasing habits.
[2] http://consumerist.com/2012/02/17/target-figures-out-teen-gi...
We do, but apparently many even on HN don't realize it. Brick and mortar stores track customers through their phone signals (providing unique identifiers and location), cameras that can track where people go in the store and even what they look at, and more. Here are a couple of good resources where I've learned about it (though they cover much more than those issues):
Not so much. Your phone carrier tracks all your movements. Your credit car company knows every swipe. Your bank sells your information to retailers. The leasing you did on that car got you into a database of new car owners. Right after you married you started getting offers from Home Depot. And with your mortgage you started getting calls from brokers, asking if you want to put it back in the rental market...
The "real world" may not track your anonymous movements yet (NYPD cameras, anyone?), but other than that I don't see much difference. In fact it's the opposite; the non-online world is more opaque, harder to opt-out, and much more invasive, as it usually involves PII.
Another difference to consider: the motivations. In the 'real world', we used to pay for goods. In the past you'd walk to your newsstand and buy the NYT edition for $2.50 (with ads). Nowadays, people feel outraged[1] if the exact same goods aren't given away for free (as in beer), and with no trackers, no registration, no ads, no anti-ad-blockers.
Something has to give.
Today I rarely find out about anything from ads. Instead I find out from sites like HN, slashdot, etc or from social network connections and groups
Because shops never monitor footfall in certain aisles. Of course real-world businesses do this. Plus all those people who carry loyalty cards.
Actually, people do. Take for example supermarket loyalty cards: every purchase is logged. It compounds with online tracking too: when you then login to the online site to check your points or view offers, the information about your purchases can then be linked to web analytics and other profiled data.
Most companies that collect data use it to make money. That's not true ONLY on the web.
> For some reason, though, we don't allow that sort of privacy violation in our actual lives.
Really? Do you have any grocery store loyalty cards? Do you use a credit card? That data is shared and sold. Do you do any activities that show up on your credit report, like pay bills to a utility? That data is shared and sold. That's how the credit rating agency got it. Do you have a set-top box? It's probably selling data on what shows you watch. Do you have a cell phone? Location data.
If you actually restricted yourself to purchases which don't involve anybody who shares your data, you'd be living in a cave.
what's imgur doing on stackoverflow?
<img src="//i.stack.imgur.com/tKsDb.png" height="16" width="18" alt="" class="sponsor-tag-img">"Here's a list of above-board analytics services and CDNs."
I don't want to send my StackOverflow activity to multiple different third parties. I am fine with each website operator having my traffic info for that site. I am less fine with them sharing that traffic info with third parties who can easily aggregate that information across most sites that I visit.
It's impressive to see StackOverflow putting this together in-house and I imagine it'll continue to be a competitive differentiator for companies that can pull it off going forward.
My site matches office furniture ads against photo tours of office spaces - fairly is easy to see why they would work. StackOverflow attracts a specific type of person so it seems like the targeting is built-in.
I don't envy a general news site like CNN where you're trying to target specific types of people who read CNN as opposed to an industry vertical.
I took a class in college many years ago to meet a diversity requirement that involved reading a bunch of books about gay Latinos. I'm neither gay nor Latino, but something refreshes that connection -- every couple of years they decide to hit me up with books on the topic, including books that I bought for the class.
I don't want to completely block ads because I understand how they bring in money, but there has to be a way to interact with them a bit to make them less annoying.
Saddest bit is that I own Xero shares, so not excited that they're wasting money on ads!