U.S freelancers pretend to be from other countries to get jobs
blog.cubeofm.com
blog.cubeofm.com
EDIT: To be clear, I meant to say that if they can't get jobs making more than $200 for two weeks of work, they're either terrible or need to look elsewhere for work. Further, I'll put my money where my mouth is: if you want to make $5 / hr and you can write good code, email me and I'll give you all the work you can handle. I'm guessing I won't have any takers.
Even in the current economy any halfway decent programmer should be able to pull in more than minimum wage.
Where do you gauge something like that? There isn't anywhere.
That said I know more than a few people who use rent-a-coder or odesk as a way to motivate themselves when learning a new language or toolkit.
It became especially apparent when I began requesting daily subversion commits for projects that lasted more than a day.
We don't all live in Sunny California where tech jobs are seemingly always abundant -- unemployment wouldn't be so high if the jobs were available. If you can't find any work, then $200 is better than missing rent and living on the street.
If you think unemployed or underemployed coders are either terrible at what they do or aren't looking, well, you're not living in the same country as me.
If you can't find a job that pays your normal salary, don't work at all? So, homelessness?
Or a career change? Take up a job as a janitor for a few years until the job market recovers, then look for programming work again?
It doesn't sound like you are grasping the situation millions of people are in right now. They've been without jobs for months if not over a year, the local labor market in much of the country has more available workers than jobs (hence the 16%+ unemployment and underemployment), they've long since run out of credit and savings to tide them over... and you're suggesting they pass up income opportunities because it might hurt their future salary.
If I had to bet, I'd say a fair chunk of those people were involved in construction, one way or another, since the boom was largely in housing and construction is very labour intensive.
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=programmer%2C+developer...
So demand for programmers is down 25%, but developers are up 25%?
Unless there's some sort of real difference that I haven't found, I don't care if someone calls me a programmer or a developer. I really don't see any difference beside word choice.
Come on, this a total false dichotomy. There is a range between an $80k / yr salary and $200 for a 2-week development project. I wouldn't blink if this story said that junior developers were taking gigs for $10 - 30 / hr. But $2 / hr? You either are a really poor developer or you have no idea how to find work.
In fact, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If anyone out there who can code well wants to make $5 / hr, email me and I'll give you all the work you can handle.
ryan at mightybrand dot com
But you have a point, and one I had to realize when I graduate from college right as the bubble burst and there was 0 work in the industry: If you can type >85wpm, you can easily make $12-14/hr starting out in an office temp position. It's not great money and the work is no fun, but it leaves you with open lunch breaks to read a book on programming and nights uncomplicated by deadlines. If software engineering doesn't pay for you, do something that does until you can land the job you want.
Yes. Or as a waiter, or in retail, or anywhere that will pay you. Coding for half of minimum wage is about the last thing you should do.
How many of those 10% are unemployed coders who would be glad to take work for $2 / hr? I'm guessing zero.
Sorry, but $200 for two weeks of work is less than minimum wage. If that's all you can make as a programmer in the US, you're either not looking in the right places or you're not much of a programmer. I know enough programmers (myself included) who charge more than an order of magnitude more than that and turn down work constantly to think otherwise. And I'm no rockstar. A good friend of mine who does PHP web development landed a good telecommute software developer job last year making $80k / yr. He lives in the Midwest and has been coding for like 3 years.
So maybe I'm not living in the same country as you.
I just graduated from a great school, but live in Cincinnati for family reasons, and can't find a damn thing job wise that's looking for anything but "senior" level, and places won't even consider the 3 years I spent interning at a place in Rochester, they just see the graduation date and think "bottom level"... So if your friend can clue me on where to find that 80k telecommute, I would be eternally thankful....
I like the city I'm in but the tech industry is very homogeneous here. I would love to find a telecommuting full-time software development position that pays well and where I can work on an interesting project. I have more experience than your friend and have experience working from home. I'd be interested in knowing more about how he came across the position.
Edit: $80k is almost at the ceiling of what a top software developer could expect in my city so this has really peaked my interest.
Even if the intersection of the programmer set and college degree set isn't complete, it does hint that the nature of this recession has been affecting one class of worker a lot harder, namely, the unskilled & assembly-line workers.
So while Ryan's point may have seemed a little unsympathetic, I think there's probably _some_ truth to it.
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/06/business/econo...
I've worked with a lot of college kids who got into coding after the recession started who's minds were BLOWN that they could earn extra money writing code
When there's no service / labor jobs on the local college market kids start looking for other angles and will take coding work for peanuts
I guess if they need the experience, but there really should be better ways to get it.
You can earn more flipping burgers.
In virtual labor, the effect of the recession is going to be a major fluctuation seeking equilibrium between the NYC/CA USA-based $100/hr coders and the Everywhere Else-based $15/hr coders. As people get better at virtual work and clients & employers become more conscious of the value deflation of quality code work people in the US will start fetching less and less and people outside the US will start fetching more and more, until they meet in value. Watch.
I do not live in either a $15/hr or $100/hr region, but I've managed people from both, and it has not been my experience that the hour sold is the same as the hour bought.
For me the market that is most open to being outsourced is web development. I happen to love developing web applications, always have. From the dynamic languages to the openness to just about every detail, I love it. I also happen to have a Computer Science degree. It's a lonely place being a Computer Scientist working in web development. Nearly everyone I've ever worked with has a career path like this:
1) Messed around with HTML. Copy and pasted some "DHTML" scripts and was blown away by how easy it was.
2) Picked up CSS. Became an overnight "separation of concerns" advocate and part of the dedicated few that "gets it"
3) Picked up PHP and MySQL in a week, built a dynamic web app. Became "multi-skilled," a "fast learner" and a "jack of all trades"
4) Became a professional developer, out-earning just about everyone they know, including people who have spent decades in their career
5) Years later, still does everything in the same LAMP stack and honestly believes that they should be working at Google if only they would be given a chance.
And the best part is that within 2 years of those people going through that, there will be someone with exactly the same background except update the technologies to the one dominating the blogosphere. I had to experience self-taught programmers come in and be all arrogant and condescending about Perl code simply because they picked up PHP or Ruby on Rails or Prototype in a weekend and it was much easier to grep. They all have the same stories about being frustrated that no one they work with seems to "get it," no clue that a Django/PostgrSQL/jQuery guy is coming right round the corner to make them a dinosaur.
The arrogance and delusion of these people, particularly self-taught people who have this mindset where they are superior because they didn't even NEED to go to college to learn what some guy with a CS degree did. Hell, the "head of software development" I used to work for used to tell a story about how he interviewed for Google and the first technical question they asked him was "what is 2 to the power 10?" and he didn't know and that was that. He told me this story like "look how random it is - that's not even related to coding, I mean who would know the answer to that off the top of their head?" and laughed it off like "google so crazy." When I replied instantly that 2 to the power 10 is a megabyte, he would neither tell that story nor confide in me again.
Point is, web development has been THAT easy to get into for years, and it still is. Even when it gets tough, generally the answer is "memcache" or throwing another server at it - luckily the places where quality is that little of a concern tend not to need more than two or three servers anyway. People talk about some Russian high school student outbidding them on odesk for a Wordpress installaton like it's some sign of things to come, but is that supposed to be a bad thing? Or should we be more concerned about the fact that people who know just enough to tinker with Wordpress for a living can earn more than doctors and nurses?
As for my job being outsourced, I left that web development company I worked for and now work for Nokia. I am specialising in JavaScript, a language that I used to love but then got pushed out from when a bunch of HTML/CSS guys picked up jQuery and changed their titles to "Front End Developer." Fortunately at Nokia, when I need to build applications that run fast on a mobile phone like the N900, neither jQuery nor throwing another server is the answer. So, honestly? I'm not worried.
TL;DR: the only people that need to be worried about a "World Wage" are people whose knowledge or expertise can be picked up in a week's worth of "PHP/MySQL for dummies."
It is not important for the story, but there is some kilobyte sign missing :)
I was once offered a $3000 contract (at $20/hour) for a project that amounted to stringing together a few generic views and writing a python wrapper around some C++ code.
The job didn't work out for various reasons (I offered to build on spec, they wanted a low hourly rate). If I were telecommuting, I could have spent a day or two building it, wait 2 weeks before delivering it, and pocket $3000 for a days work.
If they are only 'getting by' at the cheaper level, then it's a fair assumption that they will move on to bigger and better things if they ever come along. If they are able to thrive, then assumptions about the economics of taking these cheaper jobs is grossly misunderstood.
(PS if anyone needs an experienced Rails/Java/Python/whatever-you-need-me-to-learn coder and can deal with a 9-12hr time difference, my contact info is in my profile)
I am learning Mandarin, albeit in my spare time. My wife speaks it well enough to function.
To the other posters: am definitely planning to visit Dali-- in fact we might end up moving there after a year or so if Kunming proves a bit too much like every other Chinese city (crowded, polluted, charmless).
I visited Suzhou 2 years ago -- very pretty city with many of the older sections in the center of town well-preserved, but they were just building the new subway, and SIP and the surrounding suburbs made it feel like the old ways were quite literally under seige from all sides (literally as well as figuratively).
The real challenge (besides finding work that pays USD and includes health insurance, learning Mandarin, etc.) will be to figure out a way to get Z visas so we can take our cats with us! ;) Will need some kind of nominal Chinese employer.
Re: pointing out a negative-- let's just say that this is a very different audience than any other place I'd be looking for work.
If anyone has specific tips for finding FT remote/telecommute jobs (not oDesk/rentacoder/etc), I'd love to hear them!
I've been in Kunming, I liked it, but it is quite laid back compared to Chongqing or central china. There is no bustle like in other parts of china.
The wife of my friend is a Yi minority from Yunnan, so if your wife would like to live with and talk to some of the original Yi up in the mountains (about 3 or 4 hours from Kunming), I can arrange that for you. The name of the village is something like laomon, but I must be spelling it wrong because I can't find it on google maps.
You can bring pets into China with a normal visa. Get a 6 month business visa, when you are in china you can get a z-visa through local contacts. If you can't you can just go to hong kong after 6 months, step out, renew it and be back in china in one day.
The number one rule of advertising is be positive, always.
"... once the Invisible Hand has taken all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani bricklayer would consider to be prosperity–y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery"