Department of Homeland Security Devices on SF Streets | Hacker News Reader

Department of Homeland Security Devices on SF Streets

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149 pointsvskarine77 comments

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Spoiler: they are air sampling units.

Vendor page: http://www.hi-q.net/products/continuous-duty-air-samplers/ps...

Ahhh, don't spoil the conspiracy theories.

But maybe it's something else DISGUISED as an air sampling unit!

You never know:

http://www.businessinsider.com/army-sprayed-st-louis-with-to...

Big metal box in a very public place? I feel like I'm channeling Bruce Schnier here but I'll say it anyways... If I was a bad guy and wanted to plant something very bad in plain site, this is exactly how I'd do it. How long do you think it would take the good guys to figure out it's evil? I'd think hours at least. This is something like I'd expect to read in that Movie Plot contest he runs every year.

I once installed a construction cam and made up a label which indicated it was from the local township and even put a phone number on it. Nobody every questioned it (but it was on a residential street).

At least they were smart enough not to have LED Mooninites on it. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_Mooninite_panic

The three exclamation marks in "Do not unplug!!!" made me suspicious immediately. I know this is kinda funny coming from a German but seriously, the department of homeland security can't type properly? I would've called 911 on that box immediately.

I'm guessing that, if unplugged, they continue to run off battery power and send an alert to the nearest homeland office.

Sure and I would very much hope so considering how much your government spent on these things but I was replying to that guy who said that they could be fakes set out by malicious people. And, judging by the very unprofessional sign and the fact that it is sitting completely by itself in a public street connected to a street light, that's not a very far-fetched thought..

You would have called 911... on a box?

What the fuck?

A box sitting completely by itself in a public street connected to a street light, with an unprofessional sign on it? Hell yeah! Every 12 year old could build that box, print the sign and connect it to the street light. And thousands of people walk right by it, see the fancy Homeland Security badge that you can find within seconds on the internet and assume that the person who used a standard tool to open a street light had every right to do so. This might sound a bit paranoid I assume but remember we're talking about a hot zone for potential attack plans right now.. And where I'm from, official things are marked very clearly and undeniably, not with random phone numbers on it that no one bothers to cross-check anyway.. But with 911 (our equivalent at least) on it to be called in case of an emergency. And not with three god damn exclamation marks in the header. 13 year old Call of Duty players and our 14 year old intern do that..

That's exactly the type of stuff that slows down response times for legitimate calls. 911 is for emergencies, not for bad sign design.

>official things are marked very clearly and undeniably

Yes I am sure they all have timestamped PGP signed messages signed with the official german government keys.

I assure you that if you found that box sitting there and called 911 and they sent someone out to check it out, no one would ever question the legitimacy of your call. You seem to be forgetting where this box was located. The bad sign design by itself is not absolutely convincing of course but considering all circumstances, the location of the box, the maybe somewhat real danger of terrorism in exactly this area, the easy build and also the psychological aspects.. Yeah, this would be a legitimate call to at least the local PD.

Also I am talking about logical undeniability.. And I think you know already..

> I assure you that if you found that box sitting there and called 911 and they sent someone out to check it out, no one would ever question the legitimacy of your call.

Do you know what the operator says when you call 911?

> You seem to be forgetting where this box was located

In a relatively low traffic area?

> Yeah, this would be a legitimate call to at least the local PD.

Yes, the non-emergency number. Not 911 FFS

> Also I am talking about logical undeniability.

Logical undeniability? Logically terrorists would spend far more time making their sign look legitimate, since DHS doesn't really need to be worried about someone thinking their not-a-bomb is a bomb.

They have non-emergency numbers too.

It's useful to note that there is a billboard off of 101 NB, as I recall just south of the 280 interchange, that literally tells you to call 911 if you see anything suspicious. In San Francisco, calling 911 on this is just following instructions.

Heh, this got me thinking of the feasibility of cryptographically signed, err.. signs.

A QR code can hold 2953 bytes of binary information, so more than enough for a 2048 bit public key.

Same code can also hold 4296 bytes alphanumeric, which would be sufficient for even a decently long message and its associated signature.

A government could post the fingerprint of their key on a site, and post a QR codes containing a signed message about the sign on the sign itself.

Like so: https://imgur.com/a/fWZpt

Sign sign sign. Got some semantic saturation happening now.

Sounds somewhat absurd, but definitely feasible for homeland-security-type things like this random box.

If you used Ed25519 you could get that significantly smaller.

I always assume a random metal box left unattended on the street in SF will be broken apart and turned in for scrap metal within about an hour. Technically the half life of such things varies but downtown it's about 5-10 minutes.

We got pretty interesting results leaving a random beaten up metal box crying for assistance on the streets of Oakland: Most people walked past and ignored it, some tried to steal it, but a few people were actually quite kind and helpful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXrbqXPnHvE

OFFICIAL BUSINESS!!! NOT A BOMB!!!

now i have to try that on my water bottle next time i fly.

I thought you were joking with the three exclamation marks so I then bothered to read the article.

You weren't joking.

I think this must be prank. Surely.

"How long do you think it would take the good guys to figure out it's evil? I'd think hours at least."

Indeed...

"there are about 20 sub-divisions of Homeland Security it might belong to"

Hours? You're giving them far too much credit.

The fact that the reporter called up Homeland security and they could not figure it out is far more scary. I wonder how the local law enforcement allowed this.

Why would they not? If it was an actual bomb they'd undoubtedly try to make it look much less obnoxious, and nobody would notice.

It's a PST-JITB: Portable Security Theatre Jack-In-The-Box.

"This extremely popular, outdoor rated continuous duty air sampling system is intended for secure outdoor ambient particulate and/or gaseous air sampling."

extremely popular? I wonder what sales figures constitute popular in this category. I wonder if there is a magazine that covers this area?

A long time ago, I discovered that there was a publication called Potato World Weekly. (No idea if it still exists.) It was a tabloid-size glossy, not terribly skinny, a weekly (as it said), and, perhaps not surprisingly, really expensive.

I still find it pretty funny, but the wider point is that I would not be at all surprised by a trade journal for continuous-duty air samplers and continuous-duty air sampler accessories. Or more likely, a subscription site.

Globally, the potato market is MUCH bigger than the Web design market.

In your experience, are web designers big consumers of continuous-duty air samplers and continuous-duty air sampler accessories?

If so, the field has changed a lot since I've been involved.

Over here in the UK we have a comedy news quiz called "Have I Got News For You". Each episode features a "guest publication" which is always along the lines of "Air Quality Professional" or "Snail Breeders Monthly". OK, so I made those up, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them.

That device is just a sample collector. It doesn't measure or detect anything. It just deposits particulates on filter paper, to be removed periodically and analyzed elsewhere. It's mostly for long-term cumulative hazards. To be useful for Super Bowl City, someone should be servicing the device every few hours. Has anyone seen people doing that?

Homeland Security has deployed bio-warfare detectors at previous Super Bowls.[1] Those have an annoying false-alarm rate. But at least they report immediately if they detect something.

[1] http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/08/nation/la-na-biowatc...

Ah, when you put it like that, the NSA bulk collection of records is just a sample collector, and it doesn't measure or detect anything.

There might be something to this if there was a protocol for delivering secure data over diffuse particulate matter...

Honestly, is there something stopping you from encoding a signal by modulating the airborne concentration of some particle? Maybe something that doesn't occur commonly - use e.g. helium instead of nitrogen or something like that.

If you're being attacked, you'd like to know about it. This thing is more of a forensic device to figure out how you were attacked afterwards.

Or security theater.

...which makes them great for long-term air quality studies but since my prayers have to go around to each device retrieve the filter media and take it back to the lab for analysis, is pretty useless for any acute airborne hazards.

Maybe the DoHS is trying to go around to various cities and establish a baseline for particulates, so that when there's a suspected attack, they can quickly tell what's normal and what's new.

The device seems like it's a lot more than a piece of filter paper and an air intake - surely there's much more going on in there than just particulate collection.

The one in the OP has a different collector. Presumably they're sampling for explosives/radioactive matter/ ...?

Of course it would be a great way to hide something like license plate cameras, in plain sight, with the assumption that they're air-quality sampling systems.

As someone else pointed out, wouldn't these very quickly get stolen?

OT: Couldn't help but chuckle at http://www.hi-q.net/products/size-selective-particulate-samp... with the juxtaposition of the ISO9001 quality mark and the forgotten "lorem ipsum" placeholder text ...

License plate cameras aren't new to the bay area: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/your-car-tracked-... (and that's to say nothing of the ones being put into patrol cars, or the data collected on the bridges coming into the city)

These have been in New York City for years, but are labeled as EPA devices here. You can always find them on the block of a police precinct (sometimes right next to the front door) and in other major tourists spots (I've noticed them in Times Square and Grand Central).

Definitely, I've seen them around NYC as well, including on subway platforms. I've always wondered what they were.

There is always one parked in Union Sq station near where that cop on the segway parks. Also labelled EPA.

"The Super Bowl is designated a SEAR (Special Events Assessment Rating) level 1, an event that’s considered of national importance..." [1]

Ultimate authority over law enforcement coordination during such events goes to the Department of Homeland Security.

[1] http://abcnews.go.com/US/law-enforcement-high-alert-super-bo...

I can see this street corner from my office window. The box is still there: https://cl.ly/3O271Q3r2n3w

I'm having a hard time looking at that box on the corner of a reasonably busy intersection, ostensibly there as some kind of early warning device, and that sign that says "Do not unplug"...and thinking "so all I have to do to defeat this is...unplug it?"

Seriously?

For a device meant to detect a something like a weaponized airborne agent over an area, I'm guessing Homeland Security would more likely detect all monitors being unplugged simultaneously than an actual airborne attack.

If this is truly from DHS, then it is completely insane. For one, if it is for some important security function that presumably merits three exclamation points from DHS, then having it vulnerable to disablement by any casual passerby is ridiculous at best. At a minimum, the sign should carry some legal warning or threat of penalty.

Secondly, training people to think it normal that odd devices would randomly appear in public places (with no advanced notice or explanation and amateur signage) is a horrible idea. Coming from DHS, it's even worse.

When a president or VIP comes into town, they even remove usps blue mailboxes (which are federal and a felony to tamper with in the first place). They also weld sewer lids to their holes.

I feel everyone in the public deserves that kind of detailed attention to security, there should not be any mysterious boxes left around to train people to ignore mysterious boxes which may be bombs.

DHS isn't trying to hide what they are, I saw a man wearing what looked like a construction vest standing next to that exact unit. On the back it read something like "Air Purity Inspector"

DHS isn't trying to hide a grocery cart sized steel box with "Property of DHS" stamped on it?

Welp, I'm shocked.

But really, I get your point. Why is it that everyone is acting like this was some shady move? I'm sure DHS is more than capable of installing whatever without anyone knowing.

I'd suggest to call an authority other than Homeland Security and tell them a suspicious big box is standing there. Lets see how that plays out.

I think someone must be held accountable here. So the reporter actually made good efforts to find out what it was and he could not.

This goes to show that tomorrow some bad guys would put some harmful machines there with labels (Homeland Security Device, touching or unplugging will attract charges, asking questions will lend you in jail) how are citizens supposed to deal with it ?

Unplug the box, you'll figure out quickly who owns it...

There was never a question of who owns it.

One can only hope this isn't a modern day version of bio-warfare games/tests. See: http://www.rense.com/general15/ofmicrobesandmock.htm

This seems like the typical device that would instantly make its way from the streets of (typically) NYC to the home (or remote place not related to home at all) of a security hobbyist in ca. 1990s NYC. Said hobbyist would probably think that this is a phreaking awesome gift from the state.

Or someone would call the number and watch the device to see what happens.

At the very least a couple of these devices would get unplugged.

I can't help but chuckle at the "don't unplug" sign...surely this is some sort of social experiment to see how long it takes until n% are unplugged?

I see these around NYC relatively frequently. Sometimes I generally also see gas canisters apparently slightly open in subways and street corners at the same time I see the gas detectors.

I have always assumed that whoever is responsible for placing the devices is releasing a benign (but distinct) gas and measuring it in several places downwind.

By doing so, the DHS could use the data they gather to triangulate the source of a chemical weapon, or to predict its most likely path of destruction for quick aid and response.

Are you referring to gas canisters other than the liquid nitrogen tanks that litter the sidewalks to cool underground infrastructure?

I'm not aware of any use of liquid nitrogen to keep general infrastructure cool but it sounds like you're referring to the gas tanks that keep wiring under a positive pressure to keep moisture out.

http://gothamist.com/2008/01/31/nitrogen_tanks.php

I stand corrected! That use makes more sense, since sometimes they seem to come and go transiently.

I haven't looked to closely into it, but some of the canisters I have seen have seemed to be slowly releasing gas into the air.

Someone with a SDR should go out there and see what there is to see.

Looks like several thousand dollars worth of salvageable parts!

They're probably empty. It's mostly security theater to perpetuate the myth that the police state will look after you.

I've seen in these inside Cobo Hall during the North American International Auto Show as well.

They's trying to get an accurate measurement on the concentration of smug in San Francisco.

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/104282/smuggy-san-francisco-to...

If you see something, say something! Call it in if it is suspicious to you!

Followup on the bacterial weapons tests? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9862410

I've seen them on platforms occasionally throughout the NYC subway system - the first time maybe a year or two ago although I can't be sure when exactly.

Discreet Oculus

I know a Matt Scully...lol no way does he work for the DHS

Spoiler, it's a swibble, and the reason that the DHOS dosen't know about them now, is because they are from the future.

> SWIBBLE: some kind of device to control the 'politically correct behaviour' of citizens. It is "an artifically evolved telpathic metazoan." It's purpose was to stop war by ensuring that everyone maintained the same ideology, that everyone agreed. The last war was fought between those who wanted swibbles and those who didn't. When the main character asks the wrongly directed time-traveled repairman what happened to those who lost the war, the answer is wonderfully simple, "Why," the repairman said gently, "the swibbles got them.":Service Call, vol 4.

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