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Comment by TeMPOraL | Hacker News Reader

One thing I don't understand - why would the US care? Why expend resources on trying to capture Snowden? He's basically harmless at this point - he's passed all the information he had to few journalists (which would be a better target now) and there's no way anyone will ever let him near anything more secret than grandma's cookies recipe. Besides petty vengeance, what's the point?

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Four reasons off the top of my head:

1. There's no guarantee that he acted alone and or without outside sponsorship.

2. There's no guarantee that all the information that he took was released publicly. It would be helpful to know the extent of what was taken, and who else knows it.

3. It would be helpful to know what other intelligence services have asked him/taken from him.

4 "To encourage the others"

We don't know what he knows. It is entirely likely that he has information - or had access to information - that could have serious national security ramifications, perhaps as a bargaining chip.

The NSA could guess what he had access to, but it's harder to know what he still has. That's a very scary known unknown.

I recall he took pretty much everything there was to take, including the active operations db, and only released a small fraction of documents to Poitras/Greenwald. Those 2 drives full of docs were hastily dumped inside the HK airport on his way to Moscow and are no doubt in the hands of Chinese spy agencies (who also were likely set up beside his hotel room in HK trying to get his passwords).

> 1. There's no guarantee that he acted alone and or without outside sponsorship.

That has been debated and put to rest.

Our elected officials initially tried to say he was a Russian spy, but could not provide any evidence to support the claim.

If he were a foreign asset, like for the Russians, for example, he would not have acted the way he did. In fact, his handlers would have preferred that he continued to operate in secret and continue to feed them as much info as he can.

First, we don't know that Snowden is harmless, even now. Most of what we know about Snowden comes from media stories, all of which are operating on incomplete information.

More importantly, back in 2013, we --- including the USG --- knew far less than we know now.

(The question of whether Snowden is "harmless" is separable from the question of whether his actions are defensible or justified.)

Snowden has been far more independently active since his asylum. He even maintains a twitter account. It's not like his entire life is filtered through the media.

I understand that (believe me; get RT'd by him sometime and see what happens to your mentions). But add up everything he's said publicly and you still don't have a complete picture of what he had, who he gave it to, and who got what.

I'm not suggesting that anything nefarious happened. I do not think Snowden is an FSB operative. I think he grabbed a giant tranche of documents, few of which he actually read, and handed them off to a small set of reporters he believed to be trustworthy.

But the USG has an interest (a) in confirming that and (b) containing the damage.

By the estimation of literally everyone involved, Snowden took documents whose publication isn't in the public interest. Snowden and his informal team of assistants have charged themselves with protecting intelligence secrets. It's not crazy to think that the USG might want to relieve Snowden of that role.

I know we're getting a bit off topic, but can you share what happens to your mentions when you get RTd by Snowden?

ZILLIONS of randos. That guy has some engaged followers.

Mostly positive though? I wondered if you meant that you were being bashed for being related.

No, it was a warm retweet. I do a lot of crypto work.

On which side? I think I can guess

Does the USG also have an interest in (c) the ability to prosecute and punish Snowden in such a conspicuous and forceful way that anyone else in a position similar to his would be frightened enough not to take any action similar to his?

Snowden and his informal team of assistants

Do you believe Greenwald, et al. are collaborators and therefore should be prosecuted?

No. I really dislike Greenwald and, to a lesser extent, The Intercept as a publication, and think they spread more disinformation than journalism, but it's hard for me to see what crime any of them could possibly have committed.

(I answered your first question upthread).

You must be aware that people actually have called the Snowden journalists collaborators who should be prosecuted, that this was in fact a major issue in how the story has been received.

Why would you call them "his informal team of assistants?"

I have no idea what you're talking about, but if you're thinking of someone in particular who has suggested that Greenwald should be prosecuted, you should put your weird questions to that person, not me.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/prosecuting-glenn-greenwald/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/peter-king-glenn-gr...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/06/...

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/would_ag_holder_...

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/eric-holder-says-he-...

Taken literally from the entire first page on Google:

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=prosecute%20gree...

At least one sitting U.S. Congressman called for it, David Gregory threw it directly in Greenwald's face on Meet the Press, the question was even brought to the U.S. Attorney General.

Against that backdrop if someone calls these journalists "assistants" to Snowden, it really shouldn't be out of bounds to ask about it.

You are not out of bounds asking any of those people to answer for what they said, but please stop asking me to.

With absolutely sincere respect, given your credentials and your role on this forum, I will ask you to answer for what you say when it -- albeit perhaps unintentionally -- entails false innuendo.

There's no way to accuse someone of lying "with absolutely sincere respect", but at any rate: I've actually answered the question you're pressing me on, clearly, elsewhere on the thread --- in fact, you literally replied to a comment where I did that --- and am no longer interested in this conversation.

For whatever it's worth:

> albeit perhaps unintentionally

You've clearly said you do not believe the journalists have committed crimes, which means your calling them "assistants" to Snowden unintentionally perpetuates the innuendo that they were criminal collaborators.

The sincere respect is aimed at your influential role on this forum, which is the reason what you say ought to be challenged, not at the innuendo.

(Also FWIW I can't find an answer to the question of why you would call the Snowden journalists "his informal team of assistants.")

Note, unintentionally -- When an influential voice on HN albeit unintentionally spreads false and damaging innuendo, then says he should not be challenged, what is the appropriate way to say that, yes, in fact he should be challenged?

(His view that I called him a liar does not make it so.)

they spread more disinformation than journalism,

Specifics?

It's not crazy to think that the USG might want to relieve Snowden of that role.

The argument has been made that a crucial difference between Snowden and other recent whistleblowers is his relative freedom to participate in ongoing conversations and inspire potential future whistleblowers.

Is it crazy to think that the USG might want to relieve Snowden of that role?

No, it isn't, but that's not the question this part of the thread is asking. Rather, it's asking "isn't Snowden harmless to the USG?"

In a discussion about the legitimacy of the government's pursuit of Snowden you point out that it has a very reasonable interest in parts (a) and (b).

But if recent whistleblower prosecutions are a guide, it quite obviously has a strong interest in part (c) -- to scare the living daylights out of anyone in their ranks who might even think of crossing them through whistleblowing.

You would agree that Snowden's ability to inspire future whistleblowers is a powerful way in which he isn't harmless to the USG? You might sincerely disagree with those who believe that this motive for getting him is at least as strong as the others. But this motive cuts into the legitimacy of the pursuit, and it should be part of your survey of the government's interests.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11028715.

Not to be paranoid and cynical, but we don't actually know that Edward Snowden, personally, is still maintaining that account, even though the account was verified.

He's spoken publicly through video feeds at conferences etc. If he was being impersonated I'm fairly certain we would have heard about it by now.

Of course you could be cynical enough to say his video/voice etc is being faked as well, but you have to ground your beliefs somewhere and know there is a spoon when there is one...

No, i'm pretty much limiting my cynicism to Twitter and quotes in print. I'm not willing to jump that far down the rabbithole.

To send a message to others contemplating doing something similar: "If you do this we'll get you".

As someone else noted, "the plane, which passed above the Outer Hebrides, the Highlands and Aberdeenshire, was dispatched from the American east coast on June 24 2013, the day after Snowden left Hong Kong for Moscow."

To discourage anyone who might try something similar.

> One thing I don't understand - why would the US care? Why expend resources on trying to capture Snowden?

To dishearten any future whistleblower, it's a matter of pride. He must pay and he must pay big like Manning.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd6qN167wKo

To prevent copycats.

trying to dissuade future whistleblowers

Because he can still talk and express himself about surveillance issues, and they know he has a following (now even on Twitter).

> Besides petty vengeance, what's the point?

Yeah. Besides petty vengeance, there's no point.

Yeah, there's no governments predicated on petty vengeance..cough cough

> Besides petty vengeance, what's the point?

Ignoring Snowden would imply that espionage isn't a crime, or that in effect it only has a statute of limitations amounting to a misdemeanor offense, which isn't really a precedent any state wants to set.

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