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Comment by mixmax | Hacker News Reader

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mixmax·

If you tell me that Newtons theory of gravity is wrong I'll hear you out.

If you tell me Einsteins theory of relativity doesn't hold up I'll hear you out.

But if you tell me that the second law of thermodynamics is wrong I'll tell you you're a crackhead...

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For what it's worth, you may find the fluctuation theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluctuation_theorem) interesting. It shows that the second law is incorrect in the same way as Newton's theory of gravity was: both are accurate, in their domain of applicability, but neither had such boundaries well defined. Where Newton's law fails for very heavy systems, the second law fails for very small (though by a far smaller amount).

Yes I did find that interesting. Thanks.

Didn't Einstein himself predict zero-point energy, meaning that you can have perpetual motion without violating the second law of thermodynamics?

I've not looked very far into zero-point energy, but, assuming it's thermodynamically valid as you say, wouldn't truly harnessing it lower the zero point of the particles involved to balance the system?

Therefore, you'd either run out of energy when all the zero-points became literal zero, find that the energy harnessed is linear while the zero-point drop is inverse-exponential (an amazing fact indeed), or find that the zero-point is able to become negative.

Don't think of it as an infinite gas tank, but rather a gas tank that's roughly the size of the universe. Theoretically you'll empty the tank eventually, but it'll take a good while.

Wolfram said it could be wrong in "A New Kind Of Science" - I think he says it is probably more a "on average" thing than a real law.

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