Dear Hedge Funds: Index Funds Didn’t Eat Your Returns
pragcap.com
pragcap.com
To set the price of the index, you need people buying and selling individual stocks. If everyone owned index funds, there would be no index. What is the percentage of the market owned/run by index funds where the premise of following an index starts to break down?
The article says we haven't reached it, and that at that point active management approaches will regain an upper hand. Still, I wonder if it's true and the broader question remains.
Ultimately, index investing returns (before fees) should equal or nearly equal aggregate active investing returns (before fees). This makes index investing /always/ being a better option.
Who would be such an idiot to claim they're "safe" in the first place? Any investing is never "safe": you can always risk losing part of your money, even if you invest in a house. Not investing your money isn't safe either.
Indexes can certainly dip for years: that's why you manage your risk and only invest money you don't need that much so that you don't have to cash in your investment during bad times. As long as the economy grows the growth will eventually be reflected in the indexes. Even a single 10-year period with a common stock index lower in the end rather than in the beginning would be, in practice, a rare occasion. Most depressions are over in a few years. Some continents can tank longer but you will want to buy indexes from different areas of the world anyway. Or you can only buy your local indexes, making sure you will yourself go up and down with the indexes you buy.
An index will grow a few percent annually in the average, compounded. This is over decades which imply bad years and very good years. To buy the most passive index funds that have the smallest operating costs and letting your money sit in there is more and more likely to beat active funds and individual stock picking simply by waiting for the years to go by. Any costs saved by skipping active management fees or stock transaction fees will accumulate into your earnings instead.
When Icesave crashed in 2008, the Icelandic government refused to honour deposit insurance. I haven't followed the case, but it seems that depositors have started getting their money back. Cyprus confiscated 48% of all uninsured deposits in 2013, IIRC, at the time, they considered digging into the insured deposits as well. Greece was on the brink of leaving the Euro, imposing strict capital controls for over a month last summer. Had they left the Euro, all deposits would like have been forcefully converted to a new non-Euro currency, worth substantially less.
Finally, practically all mature countries (ie. those issuing cash you might want to hold) maintain some level of inflations, so you have a constant, negative return on any cash holdings. Even US treasury bonds and UK gilts, which isn't cash, and isn't "not investing", but is among some of the absolute safest investments, just barely keeps up with inflation.
Inflation is something you still need to keep your eyes on but was there ever a case (say, in the last 10, 20 years) in the EU were inflation was higher than the median savings account interest rates? I honestly have no idea but I know for sure since 2011 interest rates have always been higher than the inflation rate in the UK, for example. If this were a fact of savings accounts in the EU then inflation is not really something to be affraid of.
Obviously I'm using "save" as "making just a bit of a money while taking zero risk".
So except for the last two-three years of freak financial conditions (low interest / low inflation), holding cash would lose you money rather fast.
Not if they're in a greek account, for sure. They're better off in an account in a north-western EU country, but the Euro may still fail catastrophically.
Anyway, it's not about weighing risks, the GP was making a rhetorical point about being perfectly safe. Nothing is perfectly safe. For anything less that €100k, a bank account is a very safe place, and you can probably get a savings account that tracks reasonably closely to inflation. But it's not "making just a bit of a money while taking zero risk", it's "possibly breaking even with inflation, while taking microscopic risk". Unless you're only holding the money for a very short period of time, you're almost certainly better off sticking it in an investment vehicle with an acceptable (non-zero) risk profile.
I've experienced that. My parents experienced that. They had no "investments", kept their money in low-interest savings accounts, yet somehow their life savings was no longer enough to buy a used Toyota.
Want to get more strange? What about war? How much is your money worth in case WW3 breaks out? Hardly likely? sure. Is it possible? absolutely.
The point is, nothing is "safe", just different levels of risky.
I'm visiting Iceland in March, I'm affraid I might enjoy it a bit too much, enough to make me want to live there. :)
some people can specialise in price discovery as their occupation, and some people can specialise in growing sweet potato, or teaching kids, or nursing, or what have you. the former person can spend their time and energy learning how to pick stocks by hand, and influence the market, and the latter people can spend their time and energy learning and doing other useful things, and they can invest in index funds.
Here's a completely different angle of attack:
suppose I believe that the market doesn't price things correctly, and that some countries/sectors/companies are over valued, and some are under valued. in general, for some arbitrary set of of unpopular beliefs, there isn't an index fund I can buy into that is a good approximation of my beliefs. Even worse, it probably isn't possible for me to build a portfolio by linearly combining different index funds to approximate my desired portfolio allocation.
For example, suppose I want to invest in countries A,B,C,D,E and sectors U,V,W,X,Y,Z subject to ethical constraints K and L.
It may be the case that for each of the countries I can buy an A-country-ETF, and a B-country-ETF, and a global-sector-U-ETF, and a global-ethical-K-ETF, and for large countries I may even be able to buy a country-C-sector-X-ETF, but I can't make a good approximation of my desired portfolio by adding linear combinations of these things together.
I don't really want to buy an canned portfolio in the form of an ETF, I want to buy a custom portfolio, or a custom portfolio factory, say.
But perhaps part of the success of ETFs for non-expert folk like me is that they'd prevent me from expressing my strange individual beliefs about the market (which will probably result in worse investment outcomes for me than if I just did something mainstream).
To me stock picking on the basis that you know better than the market is largely hubris. Most of the people I know who do it don't do any meaningful benchmarking so it's impossible to properly assess success. When the market goes up they made money (yaaay - I picked well) but when they lost money it's because the market went down (nothing I can do in the face of that).
There are a decent number of people manually investing their pension and I genuinely think some proper requirements on reporting would be valuable for them.
Walking in the footsteps of giants, the first modern individual, for me, being Ricardo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricardo
You mention 'buying global' Bear in mind that most stock markets outside Anglo Saxon countries are very different, as company financing goes very differently. 'Buying Germany' is completely different from 'Buying DAX'.
If you're seeking an index, there should be passive funds for most major MSCI indexes down to the obscure, but they're representative of stocks, not of economies and fundamentals.
If you're interested in building portfolios, then proxies are the best bet, and that's why funds-of-hedge-funds exist. They cover a lot of exotic interests by packaging together hedge funds into certain groups. I have always avoided these, however, as often hedge funds avoid being part of funds-of-funds.
The fact that there's a market outside of indexing allows the index funds to buy more stock with the dividends received. With no market the index fund would need to pass the dividends forward to the owners of the fund.
In a world where everybody is invested in the index, and no-one is buying individual stocks, there is no market to make.
But, it probably would be very risky and thus very expensive. I'd guess the "big index" world would be very illiquid.
[1] https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/294654490/Nevsky-Newslette...
Solid private companies refuse to go public not on boarding the typical mix of innovators/new companies on an exchange.
Companies have much shorter lifespans.
and a massive amount of other factors, I can't do justice to on a 48hr sleep deficit. My personal thesis, we are in a huge bubble. Tech, while certainly overvalued, is possibly the least out of whack with a true underlying value (to the degree that even exists).
Signs of this are everywhere. It isn't a terrible thing I don't think, but an average investor might not make much money in the market if they started putting money in now.
That is one way to read the letter. Another way to see it is that technical innovation has provided much cheaper ways to capture the value the hedge fund previously provided. Between index funds that are a cheap way to capture macro gains and and algo funds as a cheap way to capture micro gains there just isn't a reason to pay a hedge fund manager his 2 & 20. I for one am glad about this, because that hedge fund managers profit came largely out of my (or some aggregate person much like me) pocket.
> HFT is providing liquidity, there really isn't a situation where a 'real' investor needs liquidity at the microsecond level
This is a common misstatement of the liquidity argument for HFT market makers. The correct way to frame it is that HFT market makers can provide liquidity cheaper for a variety of factors:
1) cheaper infrastructure as it is much cheaper to get a machine at an exchange than a person in a pit.
2) more efficient quoting as a computer can quote thousands of markets while a person can quote a half dozen.
3) less risk which is the crux of the argument for speed. To a market maker (HFT or otherwise) the risk they are trying mitigate is the risk presented by hedge funds and other large block orderers. Those large blocks will move the price of the market (that is in fact how the large block orderer captures profit, the information imbalance they have at the beginning of the order compared to the end). Historically some of that profit came out of the market makers pocket, so they had to price every trade higher to account for it. It has always been a cat and mouse game between market makers and hedge funds. Now HFT is better at recognizing and reacting to these large block orders meaning the market maker can price less risk into all of their quotes.
> an average investor might not make much money in the market if they started putting money in now.
One of the very nice things about our markets is that they will actually reward you handsomely if you take that opinion and turn it into action.
The fraud is not so much my concern- it's the unethical business plan. Valeant is just a watered down Turing Pharma. All the while Ackman continued to grow his position.
Clearly their research goes much deeper than reading over the 10Q forms and annual reports.
But a smaller index has one important benefit, which as an ETF investor is key to me. I do not believe in the ability of a randomly picked asset manager to outperform the market (and I have no way to pick one any other way). An index selects stocks by just one criteria: the market capitalisation. So it will be selling stocks that are on the way down and buying stocks on the way up (as they become big/small enough to enter/exit the index).
Very simple investment rule and good enough in my opinion. This strategy comes with a "tax": hedge funds are watching stocks about to get in or out of an index and front-run the expected flow of ETF buyers and sellers, which means I leave some money on the table. That's the tax I pay for being a lazy investor.