Electric car maker Aptera in disarray as founders fade away | Hacker News Reader

Electric car maker Aptera in disarray as founders fade away

green.venturebeat.com

14 pointsilamont13 comments

This is disappointing, but not too surprising for anyone that has watched the automotive space for a few years. A thousand vehicles a year is considered the minimum viable volume for a car company to break even in series production, and the jump from prototype to serial number 1000 is huge.

Aptera even sidestepped a lot of the red tape by building a three-wheel vehicle (legally considered a motorcycle) and an electric vehicle (no subject to emissions regulations). Their only misstep may have been deciding to give it a body: building a world-class chassis is within the grasp of a skilled garage fabricator, while mass producing doors that close right and don't let the rain in is something multi-billion-dollar companies still struggle with. A three-wheeled electric Ariel Atom (similar to the Wrightspeed) could probably get to 1000 units/year much more smoothly, but with an even more constrained market.

Aw, man. :( I really wanted an Aptera since the first time I saw them, years ago--it was the first car that was both as awesome as the concept, and planned to be affordable. But I had a feeling they wouldn't be able to make it anywhere near on time at their target price point.

Whether it's because they planned their initial release solely for a state that's sinking in red ink, or because of inherent unviability, it's a sad day for cool cars of today and the future.

You should build your own EV and give HN weekly build updates. We could give you our expert opinions on the style and technology.

The only catch is you have to get a license plate that says HN-EV.

Lots of people do their own EV conversions from ICE (internal combustion engine) cars. Trouble is, up until now they've all used lead acid batteries (and as such, were heavy and didn't have great range).

The next step -- and what I'm really interested to start seeing -- is homebrew EV's using Lithium Ion batteries. I think this is going to be the next step.

The advancement of motor and power convert technology is also worth noting. AC motors are a huge upgrade over the old dc motors that used brushes.

DC motors are very efficient, so, I'd have to see some numbers to buy that.

Also, a big plus for DC motors is that the controllers are simpler. AC motors require a high-power adjustable-frequency inverter.

The only downside of common standard DC motors that I know of is that you have to change the brushes every n years, which I'll gladly take over oil changes. :)

Well you forced me into a google search. Here's a good read on dc vs ac type motors used in EVs.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45

Thanks for the link.

Though, I still tend to gravitate toward the simplest solutions, and in this case, a series-wound brushed motor is about as simple as it gets.

Regular DC motors have heavy and strong magnets (more expensive), but the series-wound motors are just wires (and, FWICT, a bit less efficient).

Regarding brushless, I'm sure they're quieter and require less maintenance, but they still are more complex than the series-wound DC.

I suppose the AC induction motors have their place, but for the DIY crowd, I think many will stick with the basics.

AC motors are really great if you're building a drivetrain from scratch. You get a cheaper gearbox (single speed, no reverse) and a cheaper motor (theoretically) by paying for roughly six times the electronics (although you can divide the current capability of everything by the square root of three). And it drives just like an automatic transmission, only better.

But with a conversion vehicle the gearbox comes for free with the donor car, and it's typically more work to integrate a single-speed drive than to just adapt the motor housing and shaft to the transmission bellhousing and flywheel. And you're not paying the early adopter tax that's still present on AC drivetrains.

Lithium ion still has a pretty steep early adopter tax, and they're not as forgiving as lead-acid (Overcharging lead-acid batteries ruins your $2k pack. Overcharging lithium ion batteries will ruin your $20k pack and can easily burn up your car and your house).

But they're very much coming down in price. In RC-plane sized packs, lithium polymer packs (with a 5C discharge rating) are down to about $500/kWh retail. A minimum viable pack for a very light car might be five kilowatt-hours (and might only weigh 70 pounds, a little over a tenth the weight of lead-acid).

planned to be affordable

Got any firm numbers? The article managed to avoid conveying any facts along those lines.

From the Aptera website's FAQ: "The Aptera 2 Series vehicle (electric and hybrid) will range in price from $25,000-$40,000 depending on options and powertrain."

But whether or not that fits one's definition of 'affordable', I couldn't say.

$25K is right at the upper end of affordable(1), although considering the vastly decreased cost of ownership if everything goes right, I wouldn't mind spending a few thousand more.

(1) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870490560457502...

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