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Comment by Spooky23 | Hacker News Reader

Shouldn't be a surprise, the CIA has been involved in the art and media world for a very long time. Here's what the first Google search turned up:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-w...

"For decades in art circles it was either a rumour or a joke, but now it is confirmed as a fact. The Central Intelligence Agency used American modern art - including the works of such artists as Jackson Pollock, Robert Motherwell, Willem de Kooning and Mark Rothko - as a weapon in the Cold War. In the manner of a Renaissance prince - except that it acted secretly - the CIA fostered and promoted American Abstract Expressionist painting around the world for more than 20 years."

Of course modern art also is a great means to throw lots of money around, which is probably a bonus for these sorts of programs.

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They used the art. The difference here is that the CIA is actually painting the pictures.

While rare for a group like the CIA to actually create content, a great many movies have been influenced. The US military supports many productions, from StarTrek to Battleship, reducing costs and increasing accuracy. But when asked they have failed to support others, notably Independence Day. Influence and persuasion has always been there in hollywood. Zero-Dark is just that much closer to the line between legitimate art and propaganda.

ok, TopGun was pure propaganda, but USN wasn't actually writing the scripts.

the other difference is that Zero Dark Thirty is domestic propaganda, aimed at perpetuating the GWoT.

Torquing the Soviet Peoples Art Commisars, and maybe fooling a few wealthy collectors, is pretty innocent by comparison.

...and then there's the part about Vice being yet another component of that same CIA apparatus, although not specifically related to the GWoT.

If that's not absurdly obvious to anyone by now, keeping lapping up your Vice articles with all the same subversive glee of a purported guilty pleasure, as ever, and remain blissfully deluded.

Ignoring the "wake up sheeple" part of your post, let's say VICE are paid for and editorially controlled by the US government. To what end? VICE certainly has a US bias, but I'm not sure it's always "pro" US foreign policy. The VICE TV show has certainly shown me parts of the world and people I wouldn't have seen without them. If that's the CIA's doing then thanks!

Here is a token retort to add some milquetoast flak to your argument and provide a seemingly plausible, if contrived, degree contrarian spirit to whatever argument may or may not be currently transpiring in public view.

Okay, I'm not going to get you to elaborate. If you view many news sources as compromised, where would you recommend people get their news from?

You'd really get us going if you told us this about Al-J or RT.

> ok, TopGun was pure propaganda, but USN wasn't actually writing the scripts.

That's a big assumption. How many recruits were attracted to naval service by that movie?

Tom Clancy was another example of likely propaganda from that era. How likely is it for a random insurance agent who likes to play Harpoon to write dramatization of war plans, and then get the type of access that Clancy had?

>How likely is it for a random insurance agent who likes to play Harpoon to write dramatization of war plans, and then get the type of access that Clancy had?

Tom Clancy was from and hung out around the Baltimore-Washington metro area, home of the CIA (VA), NSA (MD), DoD (VA), FBI (DC), NGA (VA), NRO (VA), State Department (DC), DIA (DC), and a whole host of military bases and installations.

His native Baltimore is relatively close to the NSA HQ at Ft. Meade, the naval academy in Annapolis, and the Aberdeen proving grounds. Just sticking to Baltimore and its environs it's likely he would have met many military personnel and folks in the intelligence world.

Having lived in the DC metro area for a few years, I certainly find it within the realm of possibility that someone such as Clancy would have met these kinds of people. It's hard to miss them here given the insane number of driveways with armed guards and no signs. Get a few sailors and intelligence officers drunk, take notes, and piece things together over the years. There's a whole bunch of resources to research military equipment and procedures, and a lot of this stuff was in print back in ye olden days too, so one could ask intelligent questions.

It wouldn't surprise me if, after his financial success, the Feds did provide some sort of assistance considering his support of the military and intelligence agencies. It would also not surprise me if said agencies didn't like him for revealing certain things; he was after all talked to by the FBI.

Live and work in Baltimore. I don't have a clearance, but I can confirm those types of people are a dime a dozen here. Just like ibanking in nyc or googlers in the valley.

As something of a Clancy fan: he reported in interviews that he developed a strong working relationship with members of the intelligence community, circulated drafts, and was occasionally asked "WTF Tom who gave you that one?!" about things he had created for fictional convenience.

A similar thing happened with Vince Flynn and George Bush:

>"His fans included George W. Bush, who called Flynn "a little too accurate" because Flynn's books >are often so true to CIA actions around the world. Once, while catching a ride in Bush's limo from >Andrews Air Force Base, Flynn was grilled by the then-president on where he gets his information.

>"I started to stutter," Flynn said."

Apparently it was a joke by Bush.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2013/06/19/best-sel...

I get that explanation for books like Red Storm Rising.

At some point it flipped. Probably around the "Sum of All Fears" era. Around then he started publishing non-fictiony books "Submarine", "Armored Cavalry", "Fighter Wing" that were basically guided tours.

Top Gun, combined with an improbable series of events, is the reason my older brother was never a fighter pilot.

After some time in the Marines followed by a number of years of commercial aviation, my brother decided to become a fighter pilot. As he had never gone to college, he went to a state school to meet the minimum requirements for acceptance -- which at the time was an Associate degree with a certain minimum grade point average.

As he was doing this later in life, he had just enough time to finish his degree and submit his paperwork for the program before a birthday would disqualify him. That May, Top Gun came out. The effect on interest in the program was so strong that they raised the grade point requirement to get in.

My brother wasn't always the best student but he had worked very hard on his degree and had the required grade point with room to spare. Now here's where it gets stupid -- after finals at the end of the year he found out that one professor had given him a failing grade, which under the new grade point requirements would disqualify him.

A phone call revealed that there was a mix up with a student with a similar name -- but at that point the professor was traveling abroad and wouldn't be able to fix the issue until after the holidays, and, unfortunately, after my brother's birthday.

My father, who had been a naval aviator himself, took my brother to D.C. to visit some old friends to try to rectify the situation. He was told that enrollment had spiked to the point where even they couldn't help.

Being a fighter pilot in the US is strange. In most countries it is seen as a long-term commitment, a career. But since TopGun, US fighter jocks just don't stay that long. Five years or so, then retirement into civilian life. Being a fighter pilot seems more of a career stepping stone. (Same goes for seals.) I keep running into ex pilots at security events, at committee meetings, or as politicians. So I can understand the demand. Your brother was up against not just those wanting to be pilots, but also those wanting the badge on the resume.

The flip side is that while well trained, US pilots have a bit of a reputation. They seem like they are trying to fit the TopGun stereotype. I once read somewhere that the Naval program on which the movie is based was losing more pilots to motorcycle accidents than flying. That's probably an aberration as these are small numbers, but the concept that pilots would even ride motorcycles off duty is odd. You'd never see an astronaut taking such risks.

Odd that piece didn't actually mention more of the scholarship around this, especially since they reference the "wurlizter" line. The book by Hugh Wilford on exactly that topic was excellent and the bibliography in the back was a gold mine on art, intellectuals, labor fronts, etc. www.amazon.com/The-Mighty-Wurlitzer-Played-America/dp/067403256X/

The Cultural Cold War by Saunders is, as far as I know, the best main stream scholarship on specifically the art scene.

EDIT: ....and I'm an idiot. Saunders is the author of that article. Jesus. Nice find OP.

Similarly, The Paris Review was founded by CIA agent (and novelist and National Book Award winner) Peter Matthiessen[1] as a form of "cultural propaganda"[2].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Matthiessen

[2]http://www.salon.com/2012/05/27/exclusive_the_paris_review_t...

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