How mutton flaps are killing Tonga | Hacker News Reader

How mutton flaps are killing Tonga

bbc.com

17 pointsfinid23 comments

I studied this topic a bit in a Food & Culture class last semester and this is the first time I've heard of mutton flaps or turkey tails being a likely culprit with regards to obesity in Pacific Islanders.

My understanding is that most experts put it on (a) the introduction of high-sugar/starch/carb processed foods (after all, isn't that where most experts pin obesity now?) and (b) the "Thrifty Gene" theory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrifty_gene_hypothesis

I noticed the article said that 100g of mutton flaps is around 400 kcal.

If the average Tongan can or will eat 1kg of mutton flaps per day (like the article says) that's insane and definitely a cause of obesity. (Or, at least should be.)

I lift weights 5+ times a week (for about an hour) and if I ate over 4,000 kcals I'd be obese too.

I can't imagine that average Tongan exerts enough energy to make up for eating 4,000 kcals worth of mutton flaps.

When I was lifting three times a week and running three times a week I would eat much more than that on an average day. If you're working hard to gain muscle you can consume a surprisingly large caloric intake.

4kcal is about right for an average person on a gain diet. Source: http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/gain-mass/eat-mass...

At the olympic level some people consume 8kcal/day or more.

A little OT...but have mutton flaps reached any level of popularity in bigger nations' cuisines? I'm thinking in terms of pork belly, which used to be a cheap cut of meat but now fetches $10 for a couple of slices in David Chang's New York restaurants. I've never heard of mutton flaps before but if it's that tasty as to wreck a Pacific nation's diet, I wonder if it'll be the next big thing served by Brooklyn food trucks.

We have quite a few PIs in the SF Bay Area, so canned mutton and corned beef are easy to find. That stuff hits all your taste-bud cravings for salt and fat. Luau povi (also called lupulu) is corned beef cooked with taro leaves and coconut milk, and it's delicious and despite being probably 1000 calories to a cup of the stuff, it doesn't feel that heavy. It's stew-like so it takes well to sitting on a steam table, and if a food truck started serving it I would definitely be a regular.

If mutton flaps are basically "sheep bacon" I could certainly see them being a contributing factor along with social and economic factors (cheap calories, a culture where traditionally fat = wealthy) etc. I certainly wouldn't place all the blame there.

Doner kebabs are a pretty popular drunk food in the UK and Europe. They're a bit on the fatty/greasy side to be much to my taste while sober usually.

They're actually pretty popular non-drunk on the continent - it's a slightly different offering, since back in the UK they tend to be a little bit of a mess while here they tend to be wrapped up neatly in a flatbread.

I've had doner meat and chips in a flatbread cone in italy. It was amazing. I was, however, drunk at the time. Guess I'll have to try and get around to trying one sober one day :)

Crazy, about 20 years ago I read an article saying turkey tails were probably a huge cause of obesity in pacific islands. Then just now I wondered if I had confused them with mutton flaps...but no. Separate things! And it appears Samoa banned turkey tails in 2007 [0] until their desire to join the WTO _forced_ them to drop the ban completely as of 2016! Insanity.

Seriously, these people are being abused, are they not?

0: http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/05/14/182568333/sam...

> "I know it may seem ironic but fish and native staple foods do cost more than turkey tails," she says.

> James Sumner, president of the U.S. Poultry and Egg Exporting Council, says his organization didn't realize they were exporting turkey tails to Samoa until he learned about the ban.

> And since the late 1990s, the poor island nation of just under 200,000 people had been trying to join the WTO, hoping to improve its economy with a gross domestic product of less than $2 billion.

It seems like something that's less "abuse" (at least in the sense that anyone's consciously doing it), and more a result of dirt-cheap imported food in a nation where most people don't have much money.

The mutton flap angle is bullshit. Here is the real problem:

> According to Soakai, it's not unusual for a Tongan to eat 1kg of mutton flaps in one sitting.

Their food culture is the problem. Obesity is a massive issue for islander communities in NZ and the country at large, and there are plenty of other cuts of meat available.

nice click bait title, should be "How eating over 1kg of stuff per sitting is killing Tonga".

That is a good showcase about how massive caloric surplus leads to obesity no matter the source. They are almost on keto.

Almost on keto isn't keto. If they drink a sugary drink with their meal it will completely defeat the point.

You have no idea how keto actually works. You must deplete the glycogen stores in your liver for the metabolic shift to take effect. If you eat more carbohydrates then your body burns (Basil or through exertion), then these glycogen stores get replenished.

It's glossed over how these things are prepared, are they breaded and fried? Basted in corn syrup? It also mentions heavy soda intake.

"And then there are fizzy drinks."

The rat chow for inducing obesity has lots of both sugar and fat. In my experience, at all you-can-eat churrascaria restaurants it's hard to stuff down a lot of fatty cuts, but eating a few bites of the fried banana seems to make some room to eat more.

Another good reason to stop eating meat altogether. Since I've been vegetarian, and now vegan, I've lost weight, gained energy, and feel so much better. I feel as if my mind is much sharper than it used to be when I ate meat.

This would not only be much healthier for these people (and all people) but it would also be cheaper. Examine the logic from any angle you choose, and the solution is quite apparent.

P.S. Yes, I expected the downvotes. But it's still worth speaking up when there is an obvious solution to these kinds of problems...

Anecdotal evidence is bad evidence.

I started praying to this cool rock I found, and the moon is in Sagittarius; guess what?! I've lost 5 pounds and am getting performance compliments at work!

It's an anecdote from me personally, but there is a large wealth of research that's easy to find on the subject. I encourage you to do more reading if it interests you.

Eating a healthy diet is always better than an unhealthy one, regardless of what that diet consists of.

You are probably bring down voted for inferring that meat here is the problem. it is not. it is vast quantities of low quality poor meat/fat. If you at 4000 calories of vegetables each day, you too would be obsese.

Yes, you're generally right about caloric intake being the main problem. Meat is a problem for many other reasons.

However, it's doubtful that people would gorge themselves on vegetables were meat not available. And, even if they did, 4000 calories of vegetables is still far healthier than 4000 calories of meat.

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