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Comment by harryh | Hacker News Reader

US Taxes as a % of GDP: 26.9

Switzerland: 29.4 (or about 9% higher)

I obviously cannot comment on your particular tax situation but it is not representative of the country as a whole.

I think what people are missing here is what's left on the table, at the end of a day, for your normal, low to mid level employee, after having paid taxes, insurances and transport to and from work. Swiss pay on average around 300 USD per month for full health coverage and have an average salary of somewhere around 5800 USD, at the low end it starts around 3800 USD. Pension system is in the single digit percentages, as is the few other social insurances we have. Cars are expensive to run, around USD 10k a year. A yearly all-included general public transport subscription (public and private operators of bus, train, ships, mountain cable cars, street cars in all of Switzerland) costs around USD 3000 per year. If you live close to a city it's only around USD 700 a year. So all in all even an average worker can still feed a family of 3-4 people on a single job from 8 to 5 if he takes the public transport and lives somewhere a bit less expensive.

Indeed! I was making no comment on the quality of life in Switzerland which is clearly excellent. They have one of the highest GPDs per capita in the world (especially if you exclude a couple of the oil producers that exceed it).

I was merely commenting on the fact that Switzerland does, in fact, have taxes that are higher than what we have in the US.

Yes, my comment also wasn't meant as a disprove of something you wrote, I just wanted to add the big picture.

Edit: I guess the point I'm trying to make: Switzerland is not all that different from the US (on a small scale), it just combines a moderate amount of corporate liberties with enough personal liberties to strike a good balance. In many ways it's like the Libertarian's small government, locally organized model, it just adds enough social and health insurance safety nets and a good public infrastructure on top. Think every county having their own tax law, school system, road network etc.

Switzerland has one of the lowest tax rates in the world (although it varies from canton to canton). Where do you draw the conclusion from?

He's comparing as a percentage of GDP. I don't know about you but I don't get taxed on my personal GDP, because I reckon I'd be taxed on about 5 times my actual salary since I think that's the amount of profit my company is making per employee.

Be careful with these comparisons. I can't comment on Switzerland, but when I moved from Canada to the U.S., the percentage of my paycheque that was withheld was almost exactly the same. The reason was that while the taxes are higher in Canada, they include healthcare. In the U.S. medical insurance is a separate line item. It may be technically true that the U.S. has lower taxes, but it is very difficult to make comparisons that take into account all external benefits and costs. It would not surprise me if Switzerland had less money available for transportation even though taxes are technically higher.

Health insurance in Suisse, based on permanent employment: employer is obliged to pay you accident insurance, which covers... accidents, full time. Employee is obliged to find health insurance (basically you get ill), otherwise state will find you one randomly. this is paid by employee from net income.

There are various models (GP, doctor on call, semi-private, private etc.), with different franchise, effectively you pay somewhere between 250-500 CHF monthly. Franchise is amount 300-2500 CHF per year that you still pay from your pocket for treatment of illnesses, then insurance kicks in with 100% coverage. Of course the lower the threshold (ie 300), the more you pay per month. Dentists and eye care are almost never covered, only with most expensive ones. FYI CHF=~ USD.

Apart from that dental and eye care, probably the best model I've ever seen. Medical care is top notch, hospitals definitely don't lack proper (often expensive) equipment, rather the issue is there is not enough doctors/nurses.

LOL, sticker tax rates are a joke in poor taste. Look at Total government spending as % GDP (Federal, State, Local).

US broke 40% spending to GDP recently. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_brief.php?brief...

Switzerland spends ~31-34% GDP. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/government-spend...

PS: O wait, debt and interest payments don't count... Sorry.

The average Swiss citizen will earn more than your average american - overall swiss citizens will pay a smaller % on taxes than americans.

Um, no. 29.4 is > 26.9 no matter what the average earnings are.

Let me try to explain with a very very simple example why the average person might pay less, even though the average tax might be higher.

Person 1-10 make $10. Person 11 makes $100

Case 1, a flat tax of 30%

Person 1-10 pay $3, person 11 pays $30, for a total tax of $60 on $200 total income, that is 30%.

Case 2, a progressive tax of 1% on income up to $10, and a tax of 80% above that.

Person 1-10 pay $1, Person 11 pays 1% on $10 and pays 80% on $90 which is $72, a total tax of $82 on $200 income, a 41% tax!!!

It seems OP was referring to tax as % of ones income and you are talking taxes as % of GDP is what I was trying to get at.

As an American who lived for a decade in Zurich, I can confirm that the Swiss pay less in taxes.

The big difference is that, in Switzerland, the rich pay taxes.

Unless they are Formula 1 drivers from another country :-)

Maybe it's not a huge factor and I don't know how this comes into the picture, but when I visited Switzerland the cost of food was insanely high.

That does not matter if you talk about it in % of GDP.

this is natural in a country where overall salaries are higher (somehow cashiers in stores also have higher salaries, rent is higher etc.). dining out is especially expensive, but as with all, we can choose how to spend our paychecks

Is this factoring in state taxes and social security? I know some states don't have income taxes, but that seems to just be a handful.

Source of those numbers, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

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