Comment by dimas | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dimas | Hacker News Reader

I know that I will probably get down voted for voicing opinion against majority but I will go with it anyway. There are evidence that vaccination is not safe, contains mercury and has negative long term side effects. Also there are long lasting debates on whether the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the harm. I have looked at both sides of the argument and based on what I have read and concluded that I would not vaccinate myself or my kids(see my reasoning below). Government cares only of the short term effect and keeping society from outbreaks of deceases where they are less concerned of long term effect that will be hard to link to any past vaccinations anyways. Even the fact the insurance companies do not cover vaccination due to possibility of severe side effects poses a question why? The long trim effect of vaccine is not well studied yet. If you look at both sides of the argument, the major question is what side has more benefit for fighting. Pharmaceuticals make tons of money on vaccination and have tons of money to promote it including usage of science as well government policies. So looking at both sides where none have concrete scientifically proof on long term effect of vaccines, what side would you take thinking on benefits that each side might have in the argument as well as possessing knowledge of possible danger of vaccine including the fact that vaccine do not work 100% as well. So the ultimate question, would you put substance containing mercury in your body knowing that it will have side effect for sure what might be mild or severe in long term against some low chance possibility of getting diseases that your body will fight anyway and that having vaccinated might not even protect you against. Here is some more info for consideration: http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html

I up-voted you because you are wrong, in the hopes that as many people as possible will give you reasons as to exactly how.

There is no grand conspiracy to make the world sick via vaccines to profit. If they are truly 'evil', both insurance and big pharma would benefit much, much more in not having people vaccinated and overpricing drugs every time there is a panic and a run on supplies, ala H1N1. Could you imagine the demand with today's media if there was a measles outbreak in a major city with many deaths?

There is no conspiracy.

As for mecury, you ingest much more of it every time you eat some fish. It is a fact of life.

With every medication, a certain percentage of people will experience side effects. People have died from taking aspirin after all. The point is that a major outbreak of a disease like measles, mumps, rubella, etc would be catastrophic for a large group of people. It is in all of our interests to do what we can to prevent this from happening, even if it means a small, small percentage suffer in the process.

Look at a history book. There is but one constant dread in every story: plague. Disease has culled populations quickly and dramatically in regular fashion for as long as humanity has existed. When is the last time you remember a major outbreak killing off half your neighbourhood? Exactly. That's due 100% to vaccinations.

Get vaccinated. Help yourself and your children; help our civilization survive the horrible effects of these diseases.

First of all, I was not referring to any conspiracy at all, it is simple business and benefit analysis unless you believe in idealistic and humanitarian business that only care about human well being(I am not saying they do not exist either). Second, the mercury and heavy metals that fish you eat might contain are not injected into your blood and small amounts if any gets there. Third, "According to the British Association for the Advancement of Science, childhood diseases decreased 90% between 1850 and 1940, paralleling improved sanitation and hygienic practices, well before mandatory vaccination programs. Infectious disease deaths in the U.S. and England declined steadily by an average of about 80% during this century (measles mortality declined over 97%) prior to vaccinations.". Once again I am not forcing you to believe in what I believe and made conclusion based on what I have read and reasoned so please do not attack me as an enemy of humanity I am just voicing my opinion and believe I have a valid argument. Though I like when people tell me that i am wrong, otherwise there will be no arguments and learning.

it is simple business

Yes, and I just gave you a better business case to not vaccinate.

Second, the mercury and heavy metals that fish you eat might contain are not injected into your blood and small amounts if any gets there.

Fish are the number one source of Mercury poisoning incidents, according to the USEPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning#cite_note-EPA...). There is no protection offered from your digestion system against this heavy metal. Your argument is irrelevant here.

childhood diseases decreased 90% between 1850 and 1940, paralleling improved sanitation and hygienic practices, well before mandatory vaccination programs

Really? Source this please, because according to wikipedia, the UK Vaccination of 1840 first introduced vaccinations, which were made mandatory by the 1853 act. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_Act#The_1840_Act)

That seems to coincide pretty well with the drop in diseases, actually.

I think a lot of this disagreement could be cleared up if there were studies done on the long term effects of low doses of mercury.

Mercury is bioaccumalitive and so I think such studies are justified. Why is no one doing this?

Also from a business perspective if there is such concern about methylmercury in vaccines why doesn't someone bring to market vaccines that use a different (more natural?) preservative? It seems like this would be a win win all around.

Also I would avoid using wikipedia as a direct source.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/index.h...

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.

However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

childhood diseases decreased 90% between 1850 and 1940, paralleling improved sanitation and hygienic practices, well before mandatory vaccination programs

The polio vaccine's first mass vaccination campaign was in 1955, take a look at what happened to the incidence of polio: http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html

A measles vaccine became available in 1963. Take a look at what happened to the incidence of (or more importantly the deaths caused by) measles here: http://www.iayork.com/MysteryRays/2009/09/02/measles-deaths-...

You are spreading misinformation, you should do the research first.

Actually, most deadly plagues in the history of mankind has been caused by bacteria, and it is antibiotics, not vaccines, that has stopped them. :-)

You'll get downvoted not because you're voicing an opinion against the majority, but because you are wrong. While there are "studies" that say that you've repeated, not are scientifically reputable, in the sense of being repeatable experiments with repeatable results conducted in a scientifically rigorous way to eliminate extraneous variables.

What you are doing to your kids is an insult to mine, and I will continue to fight those who oppose vaccinations until you lose.

All of your arguments have been fully and completely refuted using real science, not anecdotes and paranoia. Check out ToddW's AntiAntiVax compilation (http://antiantivax.flurf.net/) for all the facts. Please don't spread lies in future. Thank you.

A tuna fish sandwich contains mercury.

The dangerous sort, to boot. Thimerosal in the tiny dosages once used in vaccines is harmless.

I challenge the validity of your source.

The mission statement:

To replace the existing systems for health, education, government, money and business with systems which are in harmony with nature and which give maximum freedom, wealth and happiness to ALL the people and animals of earth. Please pray for this situation to come into existence

Computer hackers hack computers, and for all other questions they defer to the "appropriate" authority. Autism is caused by poisoning, and my mother did some Swedish program and helped cure a boy of autism, whom I've met personally. I believe its called the The Son-Rise Program. Go ahead and down vote me all you stupid lemmings. I'm not full of sick vanity.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com