Time’s Almost Reversible Arrow
quantamagazine.org
quantamagazine.org
Our direction of time is defined by the observation that entropy (or "chaoticness") always increases with time. If you mix orange juice with water, you will not see the result unmix itself again, even though the interactions between the individual molecules are perfectly reversible.
In fact, you can build a toy-universe in your head, where all interactions are time-reversible, and you would still observe that the chaotic-ness increases with time, unless you start with a completely random initial state (in which the chaoticness stays roughly constant). This increase in chaoticness is comletely unsurprising: It's a simple consequence of the fact that there are much, much more "states" in which a system looks chaotic, than states in which it looks ordered. Therefore, a system transitioning from state to state is much more likely to be in one that looks chaotic, and very, very unlikely to ever go back to a state that is non-chaotic.
The real mystery, for me, is: Why was the initial state of our universe so completely non-chaotic? Why did the universe not start out in a state that is essentially equal to the heat-death [1]? The microscopic processes that are not time-reversible might have something to do with this, but it's not clear at all how they can solve this mystery.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
Then it is the universe expansion that made the entropy per volume decrease, actually allowing complex systems to evolve. The expansion still has to occur faster than the entropy increase rate but I read somewhere that the universe total entropy did not increase that much since the Big Bang.
This one thing I don't understand about the 2nd law of thermodynamics: given enough time won't the system go back to a more organized state simply by chance? And in that case, wouldn't the total entropy be reduced?
Or to give you a somewhat similar problem - consider a 32x32px 8bit image (a standard Windows icon since version 3.0). The image consists of 1024 pixels, each capable of representing a different color from the set of 256 colors. How many possible pictures like this are there? Or, as you'd ask in thermodynamics, in how many states such a system can be? It's 256 states per pixel raised to 1024th power (just like 6-digit binary number has 2^6 possible values). It's 256^1024. You know how much is it?
10907481356194159294629842447337828624482641619962326924318327861897213318491192
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90629884219298953860982522804820515969685161359163819677188654260932456012129055
39018863010179002525357999172000100796000265358368009052978058809523505016301954
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51315177575191648992263657437224322773680750276278830452065017927617009456991684
97257879683851737049996900961120515655050115561271491492515342105748966629547032
78632150573082843022166497032439613863525162640951616800542762343599630892169144
61811874063953106654048857394348328774281674074953709935118687563599703901170218
23616749458620969857006263612082706715408157066575137281027022310927564910276759
16052087830463241104936456875492096732298245918476342738379027244843801852697776
49410727156115804346908274593399919614142427414105991174260605564837637563145276
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53547025567031200413072549583450835743965382893607708097855057891296790735278005
49356215610907958451729541159729274798775277385600082041185589300047777487277618
53813510493840581861598652211605960308356405941821189714037868726219481498727603
65361629885617482241303348543878532402475141941718301228107820972930353737280457
43720952287036227763639452908698062584223551485075710396193874496298668081887696
62815778153079393179093143648340761738581819563002994422790754955061288818308430
07964869323217915876591803556521615711540299212027615560787310793747746684152836
29877086994501520312318625942030856938389446570613462367042340268211029589549511
97087076546186622796294536451620756509351018906023773821539532776208676978589731
96633030889330466516943618507835064156833694453005143749131129883436726523859540
49042734559287239495252271846174043678547546104743770197680255766058810380772707
07717942221977090385438585844095492116099852538903974655703943973086090930596963
36076752996493841459818570596375456149735582781362383328890630900428801732142480
86639626713335280092327583508730596141187237814221014601986157473868550968960891
89180441339558524822867541113212638793675567650340362970031930023397828465318547
23824423202801518968966041882297600081543761065225427016359565087543385114712321
4227266605403581781469090806576468950587661997186505665475715792896
This much. (Source: [0]).Now ask yourself, how many of those pictures represent a letter "A". Quite a lot probably, but nowhere near that much. In all those 256^1024 pictures, you have every possible representable letter A, as well as any other possible Unicode character. In those images are all your most cherished private photos (or at least their thumbnails), and also the photos of all things that you'd wish happened but didn't. A thumbnail of every possible photo of the universe is there as well.
There's also something else. Something much more frequent than all other image I've just mentioned taken together. It's the noise. The things we don't recognize, the things we consider uninteresting. I ask you, use your intuition - if you were to create a random Windows icon every second, how soon would you expect to get one depicting a letter "A"?
And now realize we were talking about silly icons that are probably barely visible on your screen.
There are 6.02 x 10²³ atoms in 12 grams of carbon. I.e. in a tip of your pencil. 602000000000000000000000 atoms. Those are your pixels. And if you want to compute the number of states this pile of atoms can be in, that is the number that goes in your exponent. The base is some combination of possible positions, orientations and velocities, and then probably something else I'm forgetting right now. And almost all of those states are noise. That's how the Second Rule works.
Ever since I discovered that site I've been slightly obsessed with it. In the "This is really interesting" sort of way. It makes one think how everything is noise. We just happen to find meaning in some of it.
So I ended up thinking that it would be a project similar to SETI but on a smaller scale (let's say if the image size would be limited to just 1Gb).
Pretty big pencil.
[1] http://www.numberphile.com/videos/longest_time.html
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poincar%C3%A9_recurrence_theor...
[3] The units used in the associated paper. With a number that large, it doesn't really matter what unit of time you use.
However, the argument can apparently be extended to the conclusion that, in a probabilistic sense, your consciousness is just a sliver of a random fluctuation of a near-maximal entropy state. Feynman argued[2] that this shows we do not arise from a random fluctuation, because (even though we're conscious), when we look far away the universe looks highly organized.
Note that those arguments make a bunch of assumptions that may not be valid in our universe, and may not make cosmological sense (entropy is not well defined cosmologically).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
[2] http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/12/29/...
Oh that is an interesting and compelling argument I have not heard! Thank you for sharing.
But if you're willing to make some assumptions, Feynman's evidence for the latter seems valid.
taken as a closed system, our Universe's initial state was a heat-death and it would stay here, nothing would happen. Fortunately or unfortunately our Universe is embedded into previous very old and cool Universe, and this gradient is what drives the expansion of our Universe and thus provides for all the things we see happening to happen, including life (which is just entropy maximizing process in some conditions).
100-200+B year later our Universe will too be very cool and expanded very "thin". The matter will be collected into several hyper-super-black holes with Schwarzschild radii of tens or even hundreds o billions of light years - some probably bigger than our visible Universe (which has 10B light years Schwartzild radius). The matter inside a regular black hole is neutrons being driven into higher and higher states as result of mass being added into the black hole. At some point the neutrons get to split into gluons/quarks and those would continue to be driven into more energetic states as more mass is added, and may be split as a result into something else too. At the same time the space around becomes "thinner" and cooler. At some point, when even more mass is added, and thus this "soup" becomes even more energetic, beyond currently known physics unfortunately, something happens to the gravitational force what has been keeping it together and it explodes and start expanding (as there is extremely high gradient between the "soup" and the space of the old Universe - thus that will be a birth of new Universe inside our old Universe, inside the parent Universe of our Universe ... ad infinitum ... with non-zero gradient, though smaller and smaller as parent-child Universe pair is getting older...
Entropy does not always increase in time, because entropy is rarely a function of time. The most common meaning of the word is a thermodynamic quantity that is not, in general, defined in non-equilibrium states. It is a function of state variables rather than time.
What people are talking about when they say "entropy increases in time" is actually some variant of minus Boltzmann H-function. This kind of resembles thermodynamic entropy, but is a distinct and less general concept. There are processes where entropy gets higher but "entropy" (minus Boltzmann H-function) get lower.
If you mix oil and water, you will see the result does unmix itself again. Does this mean entropy decreased and time direction got reversed? Nah. It is not even clear how to define entropy of the system in between, since it is in highly non-equilibrium state.
Moving an object to higher gravitational potential decreases the entropy of the system (and thus requires work, unsurprisingly).
Mixing oil into water means you displace some volume of water which were closer to Earth with oil bubbles (which are lighter than equivalent volume of water) while you force the displaced water volume higher/further from Earth. Thus by mixing lighter oil with heavier water you decrease the entropy of the gravitational system consisting of the oil, water and Earth. Left to its own devices, the system evolves along the entropy increasing gradient - heavy water goes down displacing lighter oil up, thus decreasing the gravitational potential of the system (the friction during that "unmixing" is the work of the gravitational force that ultimately results in the heat that is lost away into the environment).
doesn't matter what way it got there, entropy of the gravitational system oil-water-Earth is lower and the gravitational potential is higher when oil bubbles are inside the water when compared with the same system in the state when all oil is on top of the water. Thus system naturally moves from the former state to the latter, from lower entropy to the higher, from higher gravitational potential to the lower.
in short - entropy of the system with lower gravitational potential is higher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity). When oil is mixed into water, the thermodynamic entropy "St,mix" of oil/water system is higher than "St,unmixed" while the entropy "Sg,mix" of the gravitational system of oil/water/Earth is lower when mixed than the "Sg,unmixed" of the unmixed case. In case of bad solubility, like oil in water, we have ["St,mix" - "St,unmixed" < "Sg,unmixed" - "Sg,mix"] and thus system on its own will evolve toward unmixed state.
What about you?
>there is no possibility of deriving equations of motion of mechanics from the laws of thermodynamics
i didn't say that. It actually works the other way - thermodynamics is derivable as an aggregation from the laws of motion. And thermodynamical entropy is just a facet of the entropy (which in general can be defined using relative volume in the space of states of possible configurations of the system for a given values of generic coordinates)
Is it possible that our understanding of entropy is flawed? Yes. But unless you have some novel physics experiment or mathematical model to share with us, I'll stick with the second law of thermodynamics.
>But this does not by itself imply entropy of the system increased. The reason is the system got to a non-equilibrium state which has no macroscopic thermodynamic description and no unique way to assign entropy and detect its changes.
Entropy is the tendency to equilibrium. Your earlier statement, that entropy is only a measure of systems that are in equilibrium, is false. If you were right, entropy would be a totally meaningless notion because there are no closed systems and true equilibrium (as opposed to the near-equilibriums that we work with in practical terms) can only exist in one.
Perhaps in zero-g, under the effect of no acceleration and/or gravity. But I've seen all (most of) the non-water bits settle in the bottom of a bottle left alone for a long time.
That doesn't detract from your overall point about entropy, but it's probably to use an example based on the quality of energy (try to generate electricity from the heat that leeches from the walls of your cabin in winter).
Here's a possibility: if you "start" at a random state, after enough exploration of the state space, there would be a local minima that was arbitrarily well-ordered. Both directions of time would then view that as the "past", and the other direction as "future".
These perceptions as to the arrow of time would last until a state equivalent to heat death is reached, at which point the "arrow" of time would flip around again.
Or 1781, when Critique of Pure Reason was published. Kant proposed that time was an empirical fact based on experiencing events in time being a precondition of all human experience. The tradeoff for a well reasoned non-skeptical position was that we give up claims to "really really" know how things really are independent of human experience...i.e we give up claims to potential omniscience.
That we normally take "knowledge" to mean human knowledge, doesn't change that this is what we mean. Or to put it another way, what would time be for a computer with knowledge or as the article mentions for creatures that experience time backward?
I was surprised to read such a well written article on quanta magazine (I've often been disappointed there) but it made sense when I saw who the author was. It read more like what might be published in a general audience Nature or Science article.
I always found the concept of time completely artificial, created by observation of cyclical systems.
I've heard things like, "if you go the speed of light, or at least really fast, time will move differently." But that seems like it would be a side effect of that local system moving at a rate that interferes with its physical interaction relative to what we consider normal.
There are probably tons of holes in that. But my point is that we tend to think of time almost as an invisible "thing", and I really have trouble wrapping my brain around that. It just feels like things happen and we call it time, but really its ordered intervals of effects.
Also information might be lost in black holes. Wouldn't that also prohibit it reversing time?
Consider what it would look like if you ran the solar system in reverse - all the planets and moons would go backwards in their orbits, but gravity still works exactly the same. The equations of mechanics don't care about time.
And yes, information being lost in black holes would be an issue, if true - that's why that problem has been studied so much recently.
Basically take the movie and play it backwards.
A simple way to see this is to imagine taking a movie of a heavy back arcing upward through the air then back down. What do you see when you run the movie backwards? A ball arcing upward them downward. The acceleration still points in the same direction: down.
If you go to the 'overview' section, there is a nice snippet explaining all this. It points out that gravity works fine in a universe that is running backwards, however entropy is decreasing instead of increasing.
Certain observations are probabilistic, and the correlations in them predicted by quantum mechanics cannot be reproduced by ascribing them to the traits of particles.
It means that at the lowest level, the universe is (barring faster-than-light communication, generally regarded to be false) "truly random". (No concept of an "observer" needs to be devised in order to arrive at this conclusion).
A many-worlds interpretation (which is consistent with QM) is basically the same as saying the result is random, because you can't predict exactly which branch any particular interaction will follow.
If you want to talk about "truly random", please say more.
Some theories rule out what you may be calling "truly random".
How would the reversing process know the direction and momentum to reverse for each particle?
The Copenhagen (traditional) interpenetration of quantum mechanics posits that when a system gets large enough [0] these superimposed states collapse down to a single state. This interpenetration does pose a problem with time reversibility, as if you run time backwards, then forwards again, it is not guaranteed that you will arrive in the same state after collapse.
A more modern interpenetration is Many Worlds. In this interpenetration, there is no collapse. So when we observe the cat, the universe is in a superposition of us having observed a dead cat, and us having observed a living cat. When we run time backwards, we end up at the point where we put the cat into the box, as you would expect. If we run time forwards again, we arrive at the same superposition of observing a living cat, and observing a dead cat.
Without looking at the math, the ability to go from a superimposed state to a pure state may seem like it presents an asymmetry, but the equations allow (and we have experimentally done) this in forward time already. As it turns out, the mechanism that allows for this to happen (interference) is the essence of quantum computation.
[0] The standard phrasing is is "gets measured". I read this as "gets large enough" because we could, in principle, consider the measurement device to be part of the system.