Developertown: Why Houses? | Hacker News Reader

Developertown: Why Houses?

developertown.com

89 pointstptacek58 comments

Someone must have thought: "gee, how can we build something even more depressing than cubicles?" This is what they came up with.

Is this a joke? I'm serious. Are they joking? Or is this being proposed as a good idea?

Actually Pixar uses something similar for its employees and it seems to work great. Pixar's are, of course, better decorated and look less like Dickensian outhouses.

"... Actually Pixar uses something similar for its employees and it seems to work great. Pixar's are, of course, better decorated ..."

Don't like the idea of being locked up inside ~ http://images.google.com/images?q=pixar+cubicles Put one in a tree? Now that's more like it ~ http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/28/buy-a-modern-treehou.ht...

Pixar spends at least 10 times as much money on materials alone, and has architects and ergonomics experts on staff to assist.

A lot of their people have two full computer setups: a Mac with a Wacom Cintiq monitor for using standard Adobe shit, and a beefy Linux workstation for their whole custom toolchain. Most of them have at least two workspaces: standard desks, standing desks, couches, etc.

This is a good idea, but poor execution in that it's horribly ugly... very aesthetically unappealing. As you mention Pixar does it way better, and there must be a middle ground where you have something cost effective yet attractive to work in.

It may not be fair to critique aesthetics, since they're blogging the first one they ever built, and they're purposely leaving some of the aesthetics up to the occupants. Remember, "if you're not embarassed by v1, you shipped too late".

Agreed that it is ugly. We never finished the first one because we felt that the nine new ones we are building are much better - they have trim, will be painted decently, use less whiteboard on the interiors (and exterior), have bigger windows, fit through our dock door for moving in a few months, etc.

And, yeah, our office space sucks for these right now, but is really, really cheap. We decided to do it where we are right now to get started with a 1.0 version of Developer Town, but we're moving in 6-9 months to the desired space (a high-ceilinged warehouse space that will contribute far more to a Truman Show "town" feel.)

I thought the same thing: depressing. I wouldn't want to work in that.

Every developer that's worked in a cubicle and sees the house in person says "I want one." We've had about 1 out of 40 who really didn't want one.

I like Joel's solution better, using really small private offices: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/12/29-office.jpg

Although I don't like the wall of glass he chose. I'd sacrifice some light, to not be distracted by people walking by all the time.

I'd agree w/ you if they all had windows to the outside, but people with the interior offices would get hosed w.r.t light. Plus I don't actually think it'd be all that distracting since you can't hear them, only see them.

At one of my jobs, I worked in a small office with four desks. Two of the walls were glass, looking towards two interior walkways - one was a hallway with a mirrored office across the way, the other was a main thoroughfare with the break area across the way.

It was a fairly open office, so there was /some/ natural light. Not much, but some. The office used pretty bright/natural-looking lighting anyway - it wasn't flickery, dim, or harsh. We hardly got distracted, because we covered almost every inch of the glass with whiteboard marker diagrams, notes, et cetera. One of my officemates used the window behind him as his todo list.

It was by far the best office situation I've been in in the past five years.

I agree about the glass. Those terrariums remind me of the prison cells in Oz.

A lot of companies have transitioned into completely open offices for the majority of their employees to avoid potential sexual harassment situations. Keep it all public.

Agreed that Joel has a great office. But you can't move your whole office with you when you need to collaborate closely with other people.

In building some of the V2 houses we figured out that having a door (that you tend to leave open all the time) directly behind you wasn't a great thing. The new ones have the door offset to one side so there's no "over my shoulder" feeling and it feels more private. To get light we have three much larger windows now, an opening at each end on the roof line and two skylights in each.

You can read about our design session with door placement here: http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/software-quality/r...

I wonder if this passes building codes, fire and safety regulations, much less compliance with the ADA? What happens when you have a bunch of these and interview a good developer that's in a wheelchair; pass on him because your whole team likes playing in treehouses?

These things are not high off the ground, building miniature on ramps would only be something like $20 per house. Hell they might be low enough for them just to roll over it like a speed bump.

I want one!

> Won't real estate expenses be far higher than for a generic cubicle farm?

Even if they are a bit higher, productivity must soar compared cubicle-land. It's shocking and kind of depressing how many tidbits float across those cubicle walls (my favorite this week: "my hair is so shiny today").

I thought the current trend was to tear down the walls - not build ceilings.

Since when is social interaction between coworkers a bad thing?

"... Since when is social interaction between coworkers a bad thing? ..."

Since co-workers can walk up to you all the time asking questions or triggering your peripheral vision as they walking past you and when they believe their greatest hits should be your greatest hit.

Interaction is okay to a point, but sometimes you have to get things done in long stretches, uninterrupted.

Spontaneous social interaction is a bad thing if one is performing a task that requires intense and uninterrupted concentration. It can be a good thing when planning, and is generally a bad thing when executing. Are you the rare example of a programmer who works better with distraction? Or do you possibly do something other than write complex code all day?

I do write code that requires uninterrupted concentration for stretches - but I can get into the zone from anywhere. This week I had some of my best sessions at a loud coffee shop. I don't want to be in a sensory deprivation chamber for hours.

Lately I have also been working tightly collaboratively on projects for over a year - and find sitting in the same room with the person quite helpful. Communication is more challenging than focus - isn't it?

There's a difference between the droning white noise of conversations not fighting for your attention and having people pester you directly because they want to ask you a question and have zero respect for your zone. Your coffee shop is an example of the former, but I believe the parent to your post is talking about the latter.

Also, not everyone is the same. I welcome collaboration, but when I'm working on my own, I need the isolation.

I don't spend all my time in isolation. But I need to be able to shut the door and make the rest of the world go away. After a while, I'll open it and come back out.

The worst is tuning out crap taking place 3 - 5 feet away from me, in which I have no part. All the more so when it is fellow employees socializing, while I'm trying to get stuff done and maybe waiting on work from them, as well.

And I agree, when the background noise becomes a din with little in the way of distinguishable, coherent threads, that's a lot better for me than a conversation or two, each of which is largely or completely intelligible (if not always intelligent).

I don't know how anyone can be productive coding at a coffee shop with an uncomfortable chair and a laptop keyboard and screen. Sounds like hell on earth to me. Give me a door and some widescreens anyday.

We are worried that the houses contribute to isolation almost too much. But they are designed to have teams roll them into circles so the windows line up, but not directly. So your line of site to the left and right is clear of distraction, but merely leaning forward let's you speak with team members on either side. Trying to find that right balance between instant collaboration and total isolation. :)

We also can park a table with chairs in the middle of the circle and since every house has a 4x8 whiteboard on the front, you have a whiteboard lined conference room for the project team that is about 8 steps away from your chair.

Current trends aren't necessarily good. Open plan offices kind of suck. Especially since they are often an excuse to reassert the hierarchy of management --> employees (the management needs private offices to do 1:1s, evaluations, etc).

The most productive period of my life was when I lived in our dorms at college. The dorms were arranged in suites of six small rooms, each of which was big enough to hold a bed, a desk across from the bed, and a nice big window at the far end. Each room was probably about the size of one of these little houses.

Outside was a common area where the six folks in the suite could gather, watch TV, hold parties, conduct mysterious pseudoscientific experiments, et cetera.

It was great. The secret is that when you wanted quiet, you got quiet. But then when you wanted to interact a bit, you opened the door. To interact a little more, wander up and down the hall. To interact even more, walk out the door into the common area. Then there were larger common areas in the lobby downstairs, the yard outside, the dining hall down the road...

I work in an open plan office now. My coworkers are great, but you can't have a phone conversation without being afraid that you're destroying the productivity of ten people, and it's getting increasingly difficult to focus. Which can make you really tired and lower your rate of doing work. There are times when I've had to start breaking out the headphones and the ambient music, which is a real sign of desperation.

These houses don't prevent collaboration - they can be moved around, windows and doors can be open. The difficulty with open spaces/cubicles is that when you are not collaborating, some people won't think twice before interrupting you. When pair programming, it is different: the barrier to interruption seems higher when two programmers are working together. I think the type of 'zone' or 'flow' is different when pairing, too: not quite as deep, but easier to slip back into if you surface.

I have a really hard time zoning out chatter around me, and far too much of the chatter is completely irrelevant (e.g. personal grooming, youtube videos, etc).

I dunno about the feng shui of that thing

I honestly would love this if the alternative was an open office or cube farm.

Am I the only person who likes working in an open office more than having separate offices?

Of course it starts getting significantly less attractive once you have >10 people in the company or so.

This sounds to me more like an introversion/extraversion thing. Introverts tend to prefer thinking to themselves while extraverts tend to prefer thinking off of other people.

If you're an extravert, it wouldn't surprise me that you would prefer a workspace that encourages more social interaction.

I don't know about that--I'm an Extrovert, and I like having private space.

I'm an extrovert...and I want a separate office. It has to do with shiny interesting people not distracting me from code in my head.

I currently work in an open office, and I agree completely.

This company is interesting. They call themselves a "venture development firm", as in they invest in your company in exchange for equity, like a VC. http://developertown.com

What I'm wondering is, how do they eat? Even if this model did work, it'd be on a 10 year time horizon like VCs. Are the Limited Partners (programmers) all wealthy ex-startup people or something? Or do they also charge actual money for their services?

We take a combination of cash & equity for building startup technology to a 1.0. We then help a startup find a team and transition a stable platform to the new team. Not a model for a startup founded by hackers who can easily build it themselves, but for folks with significant experience in a specific industry, a management team, and a great startup idea who are looking for a VP of engineering we can greatly reduce their risk. It also reduces the perceived risk for seed stage angel investors, enabling the companies to raise money more easily. And everyone who works at Developer Town gets a portfolio of startup equity instead of gambling for one big win with a single startup.

We just started 1/1/10 - but already have a couple contracts in place even with a web-site that is still very V1. Feels like some real interest in the model out there.

Drop the "house" gimmick and this could be great. I'd like to have a mobile mini-office, but it really doesn't need the shingles and all that.

I agree. It seems like a lot of functionality was sacrificed to try to make it look like a shed.

In your opinion, which functionality do you think we lost in making it into an enclosed house (shed)? The shingles are a little gimmicky, but the roofs are for a real purpose (sound dampening). Not trying to challenge, just genuinely curious.

I think less focus on making it like a house would have have let you improve the build quality elsewhere (I realize this was just a "draft").

The windows seem sort of small, making it hard to communicate without walking out of the house. I'd rather see a more "convertible" design. Larger openings (that can still be closed) would be helpful for inter-house collaboration.

I think the mobile enclosed office idea is great, I just wonder if there wouldn't be some benefit to thinking outside the "house."

As a counterpoint, my wife thinks I'm nuts and that the house design is what makes it work ("Who would want to work in a rolling box?")

Can we get one of those spring-loaded beds that you see in cartoons all the time? Then at night you just pull it down and sleep. Those 22-year-old developers don't have anything else to be doing anyway.

http://www.murphybedcompany.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_bed

"William Lawrence Murphy (1876-1959) applied for a patent for the Murphy bed on April 1, 1916 and was granted Design Patent D49,273 on June 27, 1916. Murphy started the Murphy Wall Bed Company and began production in San Francisco. In January 1990 the company changed its name to the "Murphy Bed Co. Inc."

These beds make appearances in movies, as they lend themselves to slapstick humor in which people are trapped when the bed folds into the upright position, carrying the person on the bed inside."

Reminds me a lot of OfficePOD (http://www.officepod.co.uk/)

I still love this idea, though I see it more as an awesome workspace out in my backyard that I could escape to, not so much as something I'd want in my office. Can't say I'm sold on that idea.

I like the look of the OfficePod, and wonder if the concept could be taken even further, to a tiny but comfortable and optimized distraction-free space for solo thoughtwork, like programming or writing.

It'd be nearly an isolation-tank -- certainly not for the claustrophobic -- but with a great chair, adjustable surface and giant screens, and total sound and visual isolation from the surrounding environment. (Perhaps, a floor-to-ceiling window on a neutral outside scene would be OK.) You'd enter it almost like a cockpit, for a focused session of limited duration. While there's just enough space to stretch, to pace you've got to leave.

Oh... kay.

Best part: "Our houses are designed to roll right onto a standard 53' semi trailer. With a good laptop battery, you won't even have to stop working! "

Its like someone has looked at Google (where The Company is one giant social services organization for you) or Japanese companies (where The Company is designed to organize your social life) and decided to one-up them both: now it won't just suck up your private life, it will give you small simulcra of the trappings of having a private life to convince your monkey brain that you aren't actually missing one.

Hi, I'm a dev in a wheelchair. I agree with whoever stated this would give a run against the ADA, for the following reasons:

1. The standard doors they are using aren't wide enough. No, not even for a manual chair. You could maybe retrofit the specialty hinges so that the door opens wider (outside of the frame), but that only works for some manual chairs, depending on their width. I need at (at minimum) 24" to get through a vestibule.

2. If they are using any sort of flooring, it won't support the weight of a power wheelchair.

3. It would be impossible to not feel like you're going to back into or damage a wall - they don't have any turn radius inside.

4. Even small steps are a pain in the butt. No, ramping it doesn't always help.

5. Once they're in the open warehouse space, and have little 'hallways', the doors will open out into the hall, making it hard to navigate around.

6. If you manage to get more than one person inside of the wheelchair user's own house, it will be a tight fit to get anyone else in there, plus a desk, plus a small chair.

And this is just for wheelies.

Being as how this is one of those careers folks with differing abilities are able to do well, it would be a good idea to consult with universal design principles before going any further. On top of that, considering your business model, you may want it to be friendly to anyone you'd like to rope in as a client. Your clients might be chair users.

Having said that...

I think it's a creative and fantastic idea. I think it's a fun way to personalize the office on a much smaller budget than, say, Google. I'd say finesse the idea a bit more.

I disagree with their association of programming with "complete isolation". I find the best programming is a dialectic between collaboration and solo absorption. It follows that the best programming environment is one that allows for a fluid alternation between these two modes.

They did address that: the sheds can be arranged in little neighborhoods to facilitate comms.

So is this a real company? With a product? As people mention below, Pixar does something similar, and obviously they're successful, in which case it looks a lot less like wanking.

Which is what this looks like.

This is what happens when someone who just doesn't get it looks at the well-publicized Pixar workspaces and says "yeah, lets do that!". I mean look at this thing - it's constructed with the design aesthetics of a garden shed and then they stuck it in a poorly lit, sterile off-white office (complete with those ceiling tiles that signal: "no imagination allowed here!").

These people either have no taste, or just haven't figured out that creating a creative workspace involves a LOT more than just building a cubby house and calling it good.

You might want to re-read the article.

- This is v1 of the concept.

- They're moving to a warehouse with high ceilings to put these in.

They're developed by/for developers, not designers.

This is neat. It reminds me of treeforts and those people living on the Golden Gate Bridge in William Gibson's books.

We actually had "houses" for a while in our studio (Treyarch) - long time ago. They were used by the sound designers, and were sound proof (all computers (mostly Macs) were actually outside).

It was really hot to work in such office - the air conditioner was... isolated from these "houses"

That thing just looks depressing.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com