More rumors that Apple might drop the 3.5mm headphone jack on the iPhone 7 | Hacker News Reader

More rumors that Apple might drop the 3.5mm headphone jack on the iPhone 7

digitalmusicnews.com

29 pointsbrunorsini65 comments

Shit, we only just got all phone manufacturers working with the same standard.

Remember those tiny little jacks 2.5mm (used most recently in my memory for xbox 360). I hated that, you're locked in to one set of headphones and when they break (which they do, because they're made of garbage and greed) then you have lost a function of your device.

Obviously Apple will have a plethora of other headphones to choose from, or to order more. But, for me now it's just..

I mean.. we were there! not with chargers (although that's much better for non-iPhones).. but we were there!

if they don't follow standards then I'm certainly not upgrading to the 7, and I say that as a user since the 4s who has always liked the offering from Apple.

Knowing Apple, there will be an adapter. FWIW, while I complain a lot about requiring adapters to do almost anything, my headphone is the one place where I really wouldn't mind just having to have a 1" flexible adapter that I would likely effectively treat as a semi-permanent extension cable on my headphones.

I think that 3.5mm jack is a source of many repair issues for Apple.

- pocket lint routinely finds its way into the jack.

- most male connectors are manufactured with low precision, which causes added stress to the socket.

- some male connectors are long, creating a lot of leverage if force is applied in the wrong direction.

- water gets in easily through the socket.

- the socket is very fat and forces the phone to be thicker than it would otherwise need to be.

Other connector designs are superior for all these reasons. The main issue is that Apple doesn't let other companies clone its connectors, so everyone has to pay exorbitant prices.

You know what, I ranted below, but I agree with you.

I suppose it depends on if the adapter type is an open standard, or even a royalty free patent.

I don't really want to be relegated to wireless headphones, but if they licensed another connector type freely then android and other laptops could use the standard and that would be pretty cool. 3.5mm would just be "the old standard", and I'm ok with that, as long as we transition to something everyone agrees on, or is objectively better.

> - pocket lint routinely finds its way into the jack.

I find this issue with the lightning connector; around once every 6 months I have to take a drawing pin and clear out the dirt (it is often mounted on the handlebar of my bike) and other crap that gets in there so it will charge again. I've never had an issue with the 3.5mm jack.

Don't forget that loose contact is a problem that's extremely common with the 3.5 mm jack.

Unknown to most there's another standardized connector that supports analog audio: USB-C. If they switched to USB-C on their iOS devices I wouldn't really mind.

My phone with 3.5mm jack is completely waterproof. Why can't Apple do the same?

These seem to be good reasons for the alleged move by Apple. My personal experience has always been horrible with 3.5mm jack especially on the connector side. My Android phone is already huge and it almost sticks out of my pocket. Add the height of a headphone connector to it (some are huge) and you have to be surgical when taking the phone out of your pocket and putting it back in.

I'm actually looking forward to a well built, long lasting, high quality audio bluetooth adapter that I can plug my headphones to. I won't mind recharging the adapter and considering that Android 6 phones can charge other devices, this isn't as bad as it sounds.

Wow. You have almost convinced me that it is actually correct for all of the ports on my computer to require a first-party adapter (as I have also dealt with too many low-quality USB, VGA, etc. plugs)... you have drastically increased the probability of my buying a MacBook.

I say let them do it and let the market sort out if it cares. Maybe people do want thin more than headphones.

I think they will. I just hope that:

1: This isn't being done to close the "analog hole" (ie hdcp-like drm for audio)

and

2: Apple doesn't try to make the connector proprietary

Because the number 1 things users say when asked what they'd change about their phone: "I wish it was thinner"

I have a suspicion that they couldn't change it for now even if they wanted to. There are articles claiming that the 5th and 6th (current) generation were already under development under Jobs. If it is so, then the 7th and 8th generations have also been in the pipeline for years now.

Assuming Jobs presided over the trend for thinness, and the ID team continued that direction after his death, if they even listen to people become more vocal about thinness vs. battery life since 2014, they could have it influence the design of maybe the 8th or 9th generation.

Remember that at those scales you don't have to just redesign a phone, you have to redesign supply chains, processes, fabrication methods and machines.

I wish my phone was smaller. I hate big phones, and it was a challenge to find my current 4.7" Android. Never once was I worried about thinness.

Yeah, I mean, what the heck has miniaturization ever done for computing?

I am struggling to think of a single thing in the entire history of computers that was made better by being designed or fabricated in a smaller or thinner form.

Does this mean MacBooks will add Lightning ports? If so, will they be only for headphones, or is there some other device planned to make use of it, too?

I can't see why anyone is surprised by this. Classic Apple move. It'll just create a market for the cheap 3.5mm to Bluetooth dongles [1] you can plug into your headset, which I've actually come to like since I can tuck the headphones into my shirt pocket then use the phone like normal. Of course just one more thing to keep charged though...

[1] http://www.amazon.com/MOCREO-Bluetooth-Wireless-Streaming-Re...

And these are absolutely horrible(I tested 4 different ones) because there's always a little bit of lag. You can't use them for watching videos or playing games because of it.

But amazing for music because latency doesn't matter.

Well, AD2P standard is really low quality so there's that. I'm not someone who would ever notice a difference between an MP3 file and a FLAC one,but sound over bluetooth is very clearly degraded.

But it'll stick with Lightning port, instead of adopting usb type C, the article suggests. That's disappointing. I wonder if ever the iphone will switch to usb type c -- every other phone will later this year.

Apple would probably piss more people off than they would make happy. The amount of lightning port gear out there has to be huge. People flipped when they went from the 30-pin to lightning just a few years ago.

USB 3 can carry alternative signals though. Just sell an adapter and get rid of it. Also, has apple ever really cared about pissing people off?

Adapters work ok for cables, but not so well for docks that you set you phone in. I understand these are a fairly common accessory.

Heck, I stayed in a hotel once that had a speaker/alarm gadget with an iPod dock connector in every single room. All obsolete now. Would they do it again so few years later?

Android users might be happy to have Apple switching to USB-C, but the majority of Apple's customers wouldn't be.

What do you mean by 'alternative signals'? Lightning can carry USB3 anyway and since you need a cable anyway what's the benefit in not using lightning?

A standard cable used on more than one brands devices. A standard that hundreds of thousands of devices are likely to adopt.

Presuming you are talking about USB-C connectors, lightning devices far outnumber them at this point, and there are already hundreds of millions of lightning devices.

As to 'used on more than one brand's devices' - what benefit do you think his provides?

And they won't when ditching the 3.5mm audio jack?!

By the time iphone7 is released, every other major phone will have already adopted USB type c. Maybe people will be happier that they can borrow a friend's android's cable since it is usable. USB type c ports will be absolutely everywhere soon anyway.

I don't think Apple is afraid of pissing people off. E.g., they made the macbook air have just one port usb type c port... (I must say I rather like that they are willing to do this, these are the decisions that really establish usb type c port! I just wish they'll do it with iphone7 too)

No way. When the Apple Pencil came out, requiring a Lightning port to charge, that was a sure sign that Apple is doubling down here.

If they're ditching the 3.5mm jack to get thinner, I'm not sure they're going to switch to the thicker USB-C connector.

It made sense to move to USB-C on the MacBook where it replaces every other connector and makes their product more aesthetically attractive and thin.

On the phone they already have a thinner connector with a much thinner plug. It also allows them to have a high-markup proprietary adapter market.

There are already portable combined DAC/headphone amplifier units that support lightning input (either directly or via a USB converter). I did have one for a few weeks but sent it back it as the minor difference in sound quality wasn't worth the effort of carting it around.

The combined heft of both the phone and the DAC unit (most of them are similar size but twice the thickness of an iPhone) makes for an uncomfortable pocket bulge. Aside from being another thing to carry around. it's also another thing to keep charged (like I haven't got enough of those things in my life already).

Sure, the DAC on the iphone isn't the best in the world, but it's certainly good enough. Only when concentrating wearing studio-quality headphones in a silent room can I tell the difference between the two, and those times that I am sat in a silent room, it's at home (which has a decent audio setup not dependent on my phone).

I guess there will be smaller units produced that are perhaps powered through the lightening port (if this is even possible?), but likely the sound quality produced by them will be similar to the on-board DAC/amp circuit.

If we assume they will drop the 3.5mm jack in favor of using the lightning port for headphones that would mean we couldn't listen to music via headphones while charging the phone. That would be my biggest issue.

On the plus side it would be nice if they put an extra speaker where the headphone jack currently is for stereo sound and so that the speakers are harder to obstruct.

This would seriously make me consider switching to Android after being iPhone only since the 3G.

The fact that both of my ports (3mm, lightning) on my 6 started flaking out about the time the warranty expired helps, too.

Why would it make you consider switching?

I use the 3.5mm jack a lot on the Aux In port in various places (both my vehicles, standalone players), plus when I need to use headphones.

So an adaptor would be a lot of hassle or you'd need several of them. That makes sense.

If the lightning port on an iPhone starts flaking out, often it's because it's full of pocket lint and shit that then gets compressed into the socket by the lightning plug.

Get a toothpick or similar, and clear it out. You will be _amazed_ at what you get out of it.

Is there any major downside to the 3.5mm jack? Especially that hold a candle to the cheapness of them and how widespread they are?

It's too fat!

And the interoperability. You don't need an "iphone" set of ear buds or headphones. So other than "aesthetics" by that meaning "different" I dont see much benefit and lots of usability downside.

For Apple it is probably just a space / size issue. It is probably one of the biggest things limiting them from making the phone thinner.

I don't think so. If there were, studio-level gear wouldn't be using it (yes, they also use 1/4in jacks, but they are effectively equivalent in quality). It's highly unlikely that apple will produce something that produces better sound at that latency. I bet what they'll do is switch to a digital connector that also carries some meta-data about the audio.

Volume (spatial). It takes up a ton of room inside the phone that could be battery.

I'm not particularly excited about it, but it's obvious why they'd want to do this, even if the phone doesn't get thinner, based on this picture from an iFixit teardown: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/fdaWRVGrZhxlZoJH.h...

The socket tends to wear instead of the jack. This makes them more suseptable to damage. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of devices get warranty returned based on this.

It seems crazy that they would do that, but I thought the same when they got rid of the CD drive on a Mac, included only one port on the Macbook, etc. I know people claim it's to make the phone thinner, but I'm hoping there's other reasons that are driving the decision as well.

This kind of fetishism baffles me...

With bluetooth headphones/speakers becoming more prevalent this makes sense. What do we get in return though? Less battery life because now bluetooth must be on? Thinner and easier to bend? If they gave me a microsd slot it would be worth it...

the industry seems obsessed with thinness, am I the only one thinking that we have passed the point of diminishing returns a while ago ?

IMO recent high-end smartphones, even large ones (iPhone 6S plus, Nexus 6P) are already thin enough.

Previously I didn't care if phones got thinner but now that they're making the screens so big I can barely hold them in one hand I would appreciate a reduction if width to make it easier for smaller handed people like myself to hold.

I suspect that in addition to Bluetooth, such an hypothetical iPhone would have support for a different, more efficient standard for wireless audio, either a new Apple-invented one or whichever emerging one Apple thinks provides the best balance of audio quality, latency, battery life and range.

What will all those people who invested 300-500 bucks into Beats et al headphones do? Buy another $39.99 adapter? That was the cost of 30pin>lightning when it came out. even today its $30. A surface phone cant come soon enough :)

I don't know if the current users of iPhone will take this as a number of them are music producers (or enthusiasts) and their current very expensive hardware won't be compatible with the new iPhones.

An adapter would surely be available in short order...right? :)

Knowing Apple, I'm going to say $30 optional accessory.

The old to new magsafe adapter is only $10, so maybe I'm being too hard on them. On the other hand, their Lightning to HDMI or VGA adapters currently go for $50.

Those $50 adapters have a microprocessor in them to map/convert the eight pins to whatever signals are needed. Lightning does not have an analog audio channel, so I'd bet this adapter would also need a (simpler) microprocessor and the attendant cost. Your $30 guess sounds right, and Apple probably won't even include an adapter as long as they include Lightning or Bluetooth earbuds. People who are fussy enough about headphones to bring their own will pay the additional $30.

Yep, I'm assuming it comes with Lightning earbuds and if you want anything else you're on your own.

Bluetooth earbuds would be a pretty hard sell if they come out and say "We're changing to Lightning for better audio quality. Here, have some bluetooth earbuds with worse audio than your old wired ones."

EDIT: How small can you make a decent DAC anyway? All the audio ones I've seen are way too big to put on an adapter cable, but that might be driven by the optical and RCA connectors more than the conversion hardware.

Right, I think it's more likely they do Lightning earbuds. 1) reinforces the concept, 2) doesn't have the fuss of another thing to charge, 3) Apple can do them cheaper than anyone else if they don't have to pay a licensing fee.

People are just going to turn on the speaker and listen to their music and conversations aloud.

If Apple really cared, they would remove the external speaker in their phones and just have a simple ringer.

</oldduderant>

I won't be happy until the iPhone has negative dimensions

The iPhone 9i is rumoured to only exist within the complex plane.

Doesn't this rumour get trotted out every year?

I don't get it. is there some law enacted that you have to upgrade to the newest phone every time it comes out? apple can do whatever they damn well please, just like samsung, lg, sony can. IF you don't like the fact that they're removing it, dont upgrade your phone, or switch to a different phone company. Owner of a Note 4. when the note 5 and edge plus came out but no longer had sd card expandable slots, I simply did not upgrade. and will not.

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