Should more OEMs cater to the small smartphone segment? | Hacker News Reader

Should more OEMs cater to the small smartphone segment?

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36 pointswalterbell48 comments

I love my 2013 Moto X, with its 4.7" screen. One of the main reasons I haven't replaced it yet is I can't find anything on the market of a similar size, that will actually fit into the palm of my hand comfortably. I may end up falling back on a relative's secondhand iPhone 5 rather than buy a new phone, just because it's small.

I can understand why it's happening, though. Netbooks disrupted laptops while the smartphone entered as a new market. Tablets disrupted netbooks. Now smartphones are moving up-market, with phablets, and disrupting tablet sales. That's a large existing market for the taking, which will give much better revenue growth than trying to carve out a niche in the small smartphone segment.

I think we'll see smartphones continue growing into the 6-7" screensize range, so that they're sized for a purse or (barely) a large pocket. And then smartwatches will disrupt the low end, so that you don't need to take your phone out of your purse/pocket as often. It's already happening - many smartwatch models let you take calls & do anything voice-related on the watch, so you only use your phone as an input device when you need to type.

I replaced a Nexus 5 which (sadly) broke with a Moto X (2014) a year or so ago. It's 5.2" diagonal I believe but the ergonomics of the smallish bezels and curved back have made it feel like a good size so far.

Maybe I've just grown accustomed to it but I never felt like it was huge, as I did the first time I went from an older phone with a 3" diag screen to a 4.3" one.

I think a big part of it is the fact that many users spend most of their time browsing the web (easier on the eyes with a big screen), using mobile apps and games (same thing), and typing messages (easier to use onscreen keyboard with two thumbs when the buttons aren't tiny). The bigger phones look and feel weird when you're holding this big slab up to your head but I don't think I've used mine to make a phone call in a month now.

I don't wear baggy pants but these 5-5.5" phones always fit in my pockets. Even in slim jeans I have no issue with the Moto X and I think some of that has to do with the curved back. The flat screen sits against my leg and the curve means there aren't any sharp edges sticking out.

Other that not needing a new phone yet, it's something that's kept me from buying one of the newer Nexus 6P phones. I really like the feature set and it looks nice enough but it seems like it's maybe at a point where that pocketability will suffer.

I have the same phone and feel the same reluctance about upgrading. I keep hoping I'll be able to find a small, well supported phone on the same carrier, but I have a feeling I'll be hanging onto my Moto X for some time.

Also, kudos to Motorola for creating and supporting a great phone. My previous phones have all slowed down to the point of being unusable over a couple years of system updates, but the Moto X still feels snappy.

The Xperia Compacts are fantastic full-featured phones with 4.6 inch screens.

I have a Moto G and it's the biggest phone I could imagine wanting. I can hold it in one hand and reach across the screen with my thumb. Ideally I'd like it maybe an inch less "tall."

Ever since I started carrying a mobile phone I stopped wearing a watch. I don't need or want both.

Ditto for my Moto E (which is slightly smaller than the G).

Smartwatches won't be disrupting anything for several years at least. They still basically just act as I/O peripherals for a smartphone. In order to disrupt the smartphone market they would have to be able to completely displace low-end smartphones. That might happen eventually with further miniaturization of power sources and cellular radios.

For the same reasons (size) I picked up an Amazon Fire phone inexpensively, rooted and reloaded it with Cyanogenmod. It's 4.7" with decent hardware (nothing cutting edge). So far so good.

Also I don't know how common the sentiment is but I would happily take an extra 1-2 millimeters in depth and the extra weight for more battery life in said hypothetical smaller phones.

I think most people would. The problem is the same with size, OEMs have to retrain people that thinner is not better. Unfortunately, OEMs currently have an oddly obsessive compulsion to make phones thinner and thinner. I honestly don't fully understand this.

OEM's follow what sells, which is probably whatever has been pushed to consumers via big corp marketing. i wouldn't be surprised if "smaller is better" is the next fad though.

And since marketing is a science of convincing people to buy absolutely arbitrary stuff, it seems to me that what ultimately decides the direction of the next trend is random fluctuations. When you can't win the market by making your phone even thinner, some other - likely random - factor will temporarily attract more customers, at which point the marketing machinery of everyone will focus on it, and again push it into its limits.

> OEM's follow what sells...

To a degree, yes. But lately it seems OEMs have been using the "I can make mine thinner than yours because we have more engineering fu than u." to one up one another despite what consumers are saying they want (battery life).

I think that aesthetically, thinner looks more impressive and "cooler" so that's what sells. We're moving past it but for a majority of (anecdote warning) people I know, buying a phone still consists of walking into an electronics store or a carrier store, walking up to the wall of phones, and comparing the hardware and price.

Sure, branding, advertising, OS preference, and other stuff has a large influence but once that is decided, they're still comparing between two or three Android phones or the big iPhone and the regular iPhone.

And in that situation, even if the spec sheet lists claimed battery life, it's a number in the small print. But impossibly thin slabs with bright, crisp screens have a more immediate appeal I think. To get a real idea of comparative battery life, you almost need to do some proper research and compare battery test results from technical sites which most people simply don't do. And even then, the difference between 3000mAh, 3200mAh, and 3400mAh is just gonna be lost on most people.

To make the inevitable car analogy, it's like asking someone to choose the plain looking car over the cool looking car because it gets 4 more MPG for the same price.

It's not just hypothetical. You should check out the Xperia Z5 Compact. It's very small but surprisingly thick which gives it a good feel and amazing battery life.

My phone for the last 2-3 years was a very, very small Motorola F3 ("moto fone")[1]. Beautiful phone, wonderful design, e-ink display, battery life forever.

But it broke. And it was time to finally have a smartphone.

But I could not bring myself to carry around one of these huge obelisks... and so was very, very happy to learn of the Neptune Pine phonewatch[2]. I never attached it to the band and have no intention of ever using it as a watch. It's just a very, very small, full featured android phone. I am using it right now to provide wifi-tethering to my laptop in a coffee shop. Full, modern features (bluetooth, speakerphone, etc.) and I have no complaints about the telephone functions/quality.

Texting is a little difficult with such a small screen, but it's not that bad. If I need to text, I can. I'm sure there's some speech to text app that would fix this, but I don't care to look right now.

Yes - there should be more small phones. A lot more. There has been zero design in the smartphone space since the first iphone - they're still just monolithic touchscreen tablets. We need new designs, not just minor iterations on iphone 1.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone

[2] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-sm...

Interesting, there's a suite of WiGig-networked thin clients for the wristwatch Android LTE hub, https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/neptune-suite-one-hub-inf... & http://getneptune.com & https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9062482.

That's for the neptune duo which is some kind of end-all-be-all modern computing environment moonshot ...

Their first device, which I am referring to, is just a very, very small android phone.

I wish they had just continued to iterate on that concept, which is plenty unique and which they did very well with.

I switched from android to Apple primarily because there wasn't a <5in phone from Android that I personally liked. 4.7in is still large, and I would gladly take something where I'm not at the risk of dropping the thing whenever I use it one-handed (and I almost always use my phone one-handed, I have no need for a phone that requires two hands).

iPhone 6S is about the same size as Nexus 5, despite having smaller display.

If you compare it with another 4,7" android, such as Sony Xperia Z5 Compact, that Xperia is significantly smaller.

I was not a fan of the Xperia. I'll try it again when they stop using LCD. The Nexus 5 looks larger than the iPhone 6/s, is it not?

My favorite phone of all time was the Google Play Edition Samsung Galaxy S4, I wish they didn't nix that GPE program.

iPhone 6s:

  138.3 mm (5.44 in) H
  67.1 mm (2.64 in) W
  7.1 mm (0.28 in) D

Nexus 5:

  137.84 mm (5.427 in) H
  69.17 mm (2.723 in) W
  8.59 mm (0.338 in) D

Yeah... the 5X looks really tempting

Carefully, the 5X is significantly bigger - 147 x 72.6 x 7.9 mm (5.79 x 2.86 x 0.31 inches).

I think it would be helpful if there were a way for users to tell the smartphone browser to reflow text to fit the viewport size. As it is, we're stuck looking at some very tiny text when people choose wide page sizes. That is one reason we are seeing such large phone sizes.

There are ways of calculating DPI.

Far more complicated than it should be, but possible.

Android removed support for reflow after 5.0 I think.

I would be happy if they would bring it back, until that opera mini still works, except for embedded browser views.

Browsers are supposed to be doing this anyway. I can't comprehend why they even allow some two-bit site designer to override the user experience and force a useless layout to render. There should be a "Don't fuck up the layout" option for Firefox mobile next to "Request Desktop Site".

Yes, they should. But they won't until one decides to be different and ship a smaller flagship that is massively popular. Then they all will.

Edit: I'd like to point out the iPhone 6s is not a small phone. Its the same size as my LG G2 with a 5.2" screen vs 4.7 for the iPhone.

I have small hands and hate large smartphones.

Best smartphone I ever had was the Motorola Defy but unfortunately it is too underpowered today being only single core and half gig ram.

Check out the size difference:

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size//phones/8908,8346,4875

If I could have phone built to spec, 4 inch screen with edge-to-edge no-margin 1280x720, quad-core 1.5ghz+, 2gb+ ram and user-removable battery. Oh and hardware button which are becoming extinct.

Samsung Galaxy S5 Mini is not that far from your requirements. I'm very happy with S4 Mini, S5 Mini wasn't that much of an improvement to make me upgrade. Physical button, replaceable battery, SD cars slot, all must-have features in my opinion but which are getting less and less common. Anyway, this size of phone is maximum I can handle with one hand. It's easy to unlock on the bottom, pull notification on the top and reach any corner of screen if needed. With larger phones I either have to use both hands, or "scroll" phone if I need other part of screen.

Still pretty big for a "mini"

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size//phones/4875,8573,7993

4 inch screen is as big as I think would be perfect on any phone.

Is that segment even small? Because right now it pretty much seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy - all good phones you can buy are huge so everyone buys huge phones. Meanwhile our app stats don't even feature 50% of larger 5"+ phones at all. Where does this meme that large phones are demanded come from? Is it bandwagoning? Inability to put powerful hardware in small chasis?

I'd like to hear from some actual marketing people on this. Is it because once you've gone large you can't go back (I'll pause for the snickering to stop)? What I mean is, after you've told consumers that larger screens are better, is it really that hard to tell them, well, no, "right size" is best?

I'm still looking for a pocketable android. I finally settled for the Kyrocera Rise which is the smallest I could find that isn't super retro android. But it's a slide open texting keyboard so it's still to fat. I even shopped on eBay for crazy small Chinese phones but all the reviews said stay away.

I have Sony Z3 Compact for that very reason. I am much more attached to size than to platform so if next time iPhones end up being smallest of the bunch, then that's where I will go.

It's not really that "compact" though

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size//phones/4875,7993,8744...

Just smaller than a full 5 inch screen.

I agree. I'd prefer a smaller, but Z3 Compact was the best Android phone at the time that had tolerable size and was locally available.

Anything bigger is what I would call a "winter" phone.

I'm willing to bet the battery life destroys all the 5" screen phones though.

I own a Nokia 515 and haven't been happier with any other phone. Maybe there should be more competition in the high-end basic phones area. I'm willing to pay a higher price (higher profit margin for the manufacturer) for a higher build quality.

I ran across the current generation iPod Touch while I was looking at the iPhones and couldn't help wishing that Apple would make a phone in that form factor. I understand the existence of tablet phones like the Plus: half the population regularly carries a large bag capable of holding a small tablet, and so they have little reason to buy a separate device. But even the 6s isn't terribly practical to carry in a pocket, and the form factor is poor for its intended purpose as a handheld device. It's too small to replace a tablet, and too big to be comfortably used as a phone.

There is a rumored 4" iPhone for 2016, http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/03/kuo-4-inch-iphone-2016-i...

Well this one's easy: Yes.

I wrote a crappy scraper for phone stats if anyone's interested in that: [1] No warranty, just enough duck tape to suit my needs, etc; you'll need to patch it to answer your own questions, but if it can save someone 5 minutes, go for it. Currently it just scrapes the cyanogen wiki, but I think I'm going to start yanking some other sources because the wiki content is... less than fully reliable for mechanical parsing.

[1] https://github.com/heavenlyhash/phonequery

Yes they should cater to the small phone segment. That or make standalone smart watches that can be used in place of smart phones.

For me I don't want to carry around big objects in my pocket all day. So those 4" x 2" feature phones are way more comfortable to me.

Agreed, they destroy tight pockets by stretching them out and leaving corner imprints

It's outrageous you can't find a decent phone under 5 inches. I 'm very fine with a small screen, i just need a big, very big battery. the best i could find was lenovo p1m.

PS. It's rare to find an exception to Betteridge's law of headlines.

I'm pleased with my Sony Xperia Z3 Compact. It feels as fast as the larger Xperia, and has very similar specs.

Depending how much I use it, I get 2 days with the battery in "stamina mode" (no background data).

Newer model: http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z... — 127×65×8.9 mm

Mediatek :(

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