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Comment by discardorama | Hacker News Reader

Street noise can slowly wear down your nerves.

I live in SF, and when I was dating my GF (now wife), she had an apt on a busy street (Oak Street); I live in an in-law garden unit. The first time I slept over at her place, I got barely any sleep. When she slept over at my place, all she heard was birds, leaves and the very occasional Harley or emergency vehicle. When she slept over, she woke up feeling so much better. So when it came time to move in together, there was no question where she wanted to be!

On that topic: I wish we could have acoustical limits on vehicle noise. Those loud motorcycles with the fat pipes: they seriously need to control those.

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By control them, I hope you mean impound them, fine the owners tens of thousands of dollars ($1 for every ear they've assaulted should be enough), and permanently revoke their motorcycle license.

Those exhausts are already illegal, but the punishments are a joke and the enforcement is non-existent.

> Those exhausts are already illegal

In most places they're not. The sound limit is quite high.

It's ~90dB and bikers routinely retrofit their bikes with loud, illegal exhausts that are louder than that to show off and because they believe it makes them safer on the road - "loud pipes save lives". 100dB+ is common, that's 10x louder than the already generous limit.

100dB isn't 10* louder in terms of perception, 10dB will be heard as a doubling in volume to a human listener (despite being 10 the energy as you correctly state)

In the U. S., the EPA specifies dB limits on exhaust noise. 84dB, I believe, but I'd have to look it up to be sure (IIRC, 84dB is what's stamped on my stock exhaust). There are local limits as well. The limits just aren't enforced as a primary offense unless the cop really just uses it as an excuse to check for DUI.

It would be a nice start if national parks started turning them away at the gate, as Glacier NP has talked about doing. I'll laugh my ass off when I see Harley and Harley-wannabe riders doing u-turns at national park entrances.

I also lived once in an apartment that was on a noisy street, I did all sorts of research on decibel limits in cities and briefly considered starting to record and trend using a decibel meter - then I remembered I have a day job.

At least in Seattle, there is an ordinance, but it isn't enforced often, and the most clear rules are some silly "if you can hear a sound system from 75 feet away from a car 'clearly'".

I reached out to the public non-emergency PR part of our police dept, essentially their summary was 2-fold, as I remember:

1. The most common noise enforcement calls were construction vehicles and semi trucks using jake brakes, both of which were a priority when there was opportunity to enforce (i.e. a pattern) 2. Many vehicles are very loud, whether legally authorized or not: sirens and emergency vehicles, Harley's, etc. Vehicle enforcement is rare. (They would not say never enforced, but that's the feeling I got)

In my opinion, the only thing louder than the motorcycles were all of the city buses. :(

Fortunately, the new buses are MUCH quieter.

Once all of the D60HFs/D40LFs are gone, the problem should be solved.

Many municipalities have limits but find it difficult to control loud bikers because when the police attempt to stop them, they speed away dangerously. Enforcement needs to change, but it's likely difficult in the US where my understanding is tickets/suspensions can't be issued just based on who owns the vehicle, they have to be issued to who was operating the vehicle, which is much more difficult to prove without stopping the vehicle.

> difficult to control loud bikers because when the police attempt to stop them, they speed away dangerously

i don't buy it. people who run from cops get the helicopter called on them. loud bikers have always gotten a pass from cops for some reason. it's another example of uneven enforcement of laws which erodes the confidence and trust people have in police.

You only ever hear about people who run away from cops badly. Motorcycles are usually long gone before the police have a chance to call a helicopter, which they would be able to outrun anyways if they were on a straight road.

To be clear though I don't think that's the reason loudness isn't enforced. I imagine it more has to do with the fact that they aren't watching for it since they don't have any way to easily test it like speed.

What movie is that in?

Loads. They're all on YouTube filmed with Gopros.

Seriously bikes run from cops all the time. They're gone in a flash.

If they have a video with a license plate record of them running away from police, then why don't they revoke the plate and impound the vehicle at the registered address?

I take it you haven't seen the license plate covers popping up all over that basically make it impossible to read a plate from beyond a few feet away?

A representative example off GIS: http://www.v6mustang.com/attachments/dsc00087-jpg.35600/

Why aren't these cars/bikes fined while parked on the street?

I, too, would love to know the answer to that question. I've been seeing them all over in NY, where I understand they're illegal, and have no idea how they're not cop magnets.

Back in the day, I lived on a dirt road, and I never washed my car. So the tag was a little hard to read. But hey, there was nothing obviously intentional about it.

"You can't outrun a radio" is pretty common refrain among sportsbike riders upon hearing a tale of someone running from police.

Said by those that never try, and by cops that believe their own macho BS. Though often successful, I highly discouraged it, because it's very dangerous for yourself and endangers others as well. Additionally, make a habit of it and you'll eventually get caught and enjoy free accommodations courtesy of whatever county you're in at the time.

But one can most certainly outrun a radio.

I think you're confusing tales of people on sportsbikes running from cops with those on cruisers. Cruisers can't outrun anyone. Cruisers are the ones with the loud rumbly exhausts that most annoy people. Sportsbikes have higher pitched, tinny, buzzy exhausts. Still loud, but less annoying.

Good thing we have license plate readers. Impound the bike for noise pollution and a bonus felony for running away from cops!

I moved to NYC a few months ago, from Long Island, and I have been experiencing morning headaches. If I look at my sleep logger app, I notice that after around 5-6 AM, my sleep quality goes way down and moves into mostly light sleep, almost no deep sleep or REM. There's definitely something to be said about how street noise affects our sleep patterns.

For me, I'll have to try using earplugs more, but the stress on my ears isn't so nice because I'm a side sleeper. I wish I could just go to bed earlier, but I work on a remote team which is half in LA, and it would be counterproductive if I wasn't able to stay up past 10-11 PM... not to mention my schedule would conflict with that of my friends and roommates.

Have you tried adding white noise, like sleeping with a fan on? I find it just as effective as earplugs, which make my ear canals hurt if I wear them all night. For me, it's not the volume of noise that hurts my sleep quality; it's the variations in the noise.

Hmm, I used to sleep with a fan on back in college for the heat and I did get used to it at the time. Maybe I'll try some white noise. Thanks.

Consistent white noise absolutely works.

FWIW, pink noise helped tremendously with my urban-noise-induced tinnitus at night.

agreed. I grew up sleeping 35ft from a busy highway with rumble strips. A 5000btu window unit air conditoner 3ft from my head drowned it all out. I sleep with a small fan running in the corner now and use a white noise app on my phone when I'm away from home.

I'm also a side sleeper and had trouble with normal earplugs. A month back I bought these DIY custom molded earplugs. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A28OW6 I use them every night with no discomfort, they do a better job of blocking out noise and they stick in all night regardless of my tossing and turning.

How long do they last you, on average? I've seen these before but worried about them breaking down.

I may look into getting some custom molded silicone sleep plugs in the future, I have some noise attenuating ones already for concerts and they're pretty comfortable.

I've had them a little over a month and show no signs of breaking down.

Here are dirt cheap earplugs for you, Home Depot sells many similar variations by 3M:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Orange-Disposable-Earplugs-7-P...

You can take a pair of scissors and slightly trim from the big (non-rounded) end, so that they aren't long enough to interfere with side sleeping, but they are still long enough that you can easily pull them out in the morning.

I haven't tried custom silicone earplugs, but these disposable ones are very soft and comfortable. You twirl them into a smaller thickness and they gently expand once you insert them.

I started using them a number of years ago when the guy in the house next door got a very loud dog that he insisted stay outside at night and/or early morning. So of course the dog did nothing but whine and bark! Fortunately he finally got rid of the dog.

A single "disposable" pair of plugs can last a week, or even a month if you want. The sound effectiveness decreases slightly over multiple uses. But that's OK. They start out really quiet, they claim something close to 30 dB. So if they're only 15 dB after multiple uses, that's OK. You probably don't want total isolation anyway.

Also a side sleeper with the same issues.

I tried two pairs of these Radians and couldn't get them to work well. They don't form a proper seal I think, not exactly sure. Def. not as effective as normal ear plugs when it comes to blocking out sound for me. I'm not sure if I did something wrong during the molding process or my ear shape is somehow incompatible with them but I did carefully try twice to no avail.

Any tips?

Extended use of earplugs (say every night for a couple years) can be a contributing cause to developing tinnitus.

Source?

https://www.reddit.com/r/tinnitus/comments/34k8si/does_sleep...

It looks like it's not earplugs, but sensory deprivation that can cause tinnitus. If you're listening to a normal volume of noise for at least a few hours a days, it won't be a problem.

Dunno if this is true but if you're already afflicted prolonged use of earplugs will make it a lot worse, in my experience.

I've used ear plugs for a long time; they really help. My current favorites are the Moldex 6604 Sparkplugs. Even as a side-sleeper, they work great for me.

This white noise maker has worked well for me for 8 years: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LQI2S0

They work by increasing the volume of the background noise. Sounds that would normally affect or you sleep end up blending in with the background noise.

Try this site, I use it occasionally to help me ignore the fan / vibration noise in this building and it works really well (for my purposes at least). There are plenty of different presets to choose from or tune your own.

http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/throatSingingDroneGenerator...

I use that one, Darkness, overall volume up a little and first two sliders down a little. Works like a charm.

I'm a side sleeper as well and I have been using Ohropax Classic earplugs for years. They are made out of wax, so you can roll and bend them a bit. This way they fit in my ears, nothing sticks out.

German company, but available in the US: http://www.amazon.com/Ohropax-Reusable-cotton-Plugs-Carrying...

> they seriously need to control those.

Good luck with that. It's fairly common for riders to knock the baffles out of the tail pipes to intentionally make them louder. That's why police officers can be seen sticking their battons up those fat tail pipes as a check. Whatever new tech one could make will surely be circumvented too.

"On that topic: I wish we could have acoustical limits on vehicle noise."

I'm fairly certain there will be in your country. There are in the UK at least - it's a requirement that's supposedly checked when vehicles have their annual roadworthiness test. The problem is A) it's a subjective measure, open to the testers judgement and B) there's nothing stopping the owner re-tuning their vehicle before & after the test to get a pass. So ultimately, it's just not policed.

Let me preface this with "I do not have any data to back this up" but my gut tells me about 90% of road noise is caused by 10% of traffic. In London at least.

"Those loud motorcycles with the fat pipes: they seriously need to control those."

I'm totally with you on these, but really it's any of these two-stroke bastards, even mopeds these days. The fashion is to tune them to the point of nuisance.

Silence is extremely unsettling. At my parents' suburban home I need a window open or a fan running in the room or I have no chance of sleep. If the power goes out and the fan stops I wake up immediately. I've never slept better than with an open window at a Beale Street hotel in Nashville and street musicians below, or in downtown Chicago with the soothing rush of cars and sirens.

> The first time I slept over at her place, I got barely any sleep.

I'm guessing you meant on account of the noise. And weren't referring to a great next of sexy fun.

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