Comment by sageabilly | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sageabilly | Hacker News Reader

Living in the DC metro area I see two big issues with Metro service: 1- there are four different jurisdictions (VA, MD, DC, and the Feds) all trying to agree on every little thing and all trying to get their piece of the pie, and 2- people have to use Metro. Traffic on I-66/495/395 is so ungodly bad that even when Metro is single-track for repairs it's still on par or even slightly faster than traffic. And that's on a good traffic day; it's worse when it's raining. Not to mention the standard issue with finding and paying out the nose for parking once you've driven into DC. Metro doesn't have a huge incentive to provide better service because even with ridership being down 5% it's probably not going to dip much further since Metro riders have no alternative.

I think DC is also semi-unique in the makeup of its commuters since inside the beltway is such a hub for employers and a large number of employees are happy to have an hour+ commute each way. The cost of real estate is so ridiculously high around here that you don't start seeing 3+ BR townhomes becoming accessible on anything other than a VP+ salary until about 15 miles out from downtown DC. If you want a freestanding home over 1000sft the affordability distance becomes 20+ miles.

From what I've seen a vast majority of people will do whatever contortions they need to in their personal lives to get and keep a government/ government contractor job because those jobs have incredible stability (contractor not as much as working directly for the government, however that depends on what contractor you work for). Once you've got the coveted federal job you're happy to live in a basement 20 miles from the city on your entry-level pay tier because if you can just grin and bear it long enough you'll be almost guaranteed employment for life. Those employees can, do, and will continue to use Metro despite every problem it has because sitting in their car on I66 for an hour is not a viable alternative.

"Once you've got the coveted federal job you're happy to live in a basement 20 miles from the city on your entry-level pay tier because if you can just grin and bear it long enough you'll be almost guaranteed employment for life. Those employees can, do, and will continue to use Metro despite every problem it has because sitting in their car on I66 for an hour is not a viable alternative."

This is completely true. Let's also not forget that these employees quickly become unemployable in any other sector. They are literally trapped in the region, because most of these jobs are simply a part-time task for a single worker in the private sector, or completely automated. This further drives up home prices, because even if you hate the area, you're going to buy whatever you can afford since you know you aren't going anywhere.

DC: The weather of Philadelphia, the home prices of the Bay Area, the traffic congestion of Honolulu, the hostile to newcomers attitude of Seattle, and the not-so-bright but got rich off the system anyway culture of Wall Street.

What a place.

I've heard DC described as "Northern hospitality meets southern efficiency", which probably sums up Metro as well.

Wait a second, the south is known for its hospitality, and the north is known for its effi... ha, excellent!

>the not-so-bright but got rich off the system anyway culture of Wall Street

Even if one puts a less cynical spin on it, it's absolutely true that a lot of the accumulated experience and human capital of an inside the beltway career is associated with working within and around a very specific system. Transplant a lot of people who work in DC elsewhere to an industry unrelated to the federal government and their skills just won't be as valued.

I just want to pipe up that there is a small-but-growing cohort of us folks here who are specifically not taking the safe path of the government job. DC has a very friendly--albeit young and inexperienced--start up culture, and I'm pretty proud to call myself a part of it.

Yep. I'm aware of it, and glad it exists. In fact, I did some work with a few different folks on projects out of 1776.

Of course, you end up having to pay the inflated cost of living driven by the Government/Contractor drones.

If they can even afford any home in the area.

I'm just wondering if there's any bad/good connotation about Philly weather in general. The way you wrote above make it sounds like it's bad(?), but from my college years studying a few miles outside of Philly, I never thought it was bad.

Philly is pretty typical mid-Atlantic weather. Summers are a bit hotter/muggier (especially in the city) than some might like and winters have more snow than some would like. Personally, I prefer the weather in New England on balance but it comes down to your tolerance for winter.

I'd actually have said Philly had better weather than DC though. It's enough further south that summers are starting to get more southeastern in temperature/humidity (which I personally hate) and, while winters are milder, snow storms still happen but they're infrequent enough that chaos ensues.

Thanks for chiming in your opinion about the Philly weather. I personally prefer Philly or DC's weather than Boston's, but these are all subjective. :)

Any recommendations on housing locations for someone who might be working in the DC area (<2 miles from Lafayette Square) for a year?

Look for immigrant neighborhoods in the area that are near outlying metro stations, or on bus routes which are within 10 driving minutes to a metro station.

We are all complaining about metro on here, but going into the city it's the only option. Rent is sky high in the city, and you want to avoid these kinds of places:

Hip places like Dupont or Columbia Heights. Hip is expensive

Places with the new and upscale appearance that appeals to young professional women who tend to be very non-price sensitive, like Ballston or Rosslyn. Rents are insane there.

Places to check out:

Crystal City is less hip and less pricey, but going up fast.

Huntington is a great bet. It's an immigrant neighborhood, which scares away the yuppie white people who pretend to be multi-cultural but really are closet racists according to any realtor or apartment manager in the area. Rents are affordable, and the neighborhoods near there are walkable, but decidedly not hip or party places. Plus you have quick access to the Mt. Vernon Bike Trail, which will zip you up into DC in 30 minutes or even across the bridge into Maryland. Plus, Old Town Alexandria is a quick bike ride up the trail for bars.

Arlandria used to be super cheap. Again, look for the immigrant areas.

I don't know the Maryland neighborhoods as well, but there are a ton of good ones. They tend to be pricier.

Thank you!

"Let's also not forget that these employees quickly become unemployable in any other sector."

That also happens to people who get sucked into defense industries. The security is false for many, though, because they are expendable if contract issues arise. Even if the company has a civilian arm, the guys on the defense side get pink slipped.

I ran into a guy a year ago who commutes something like two hours a day. His wife and kid work/daycare in some outlying suburb, so at night he commuted 90 minutes to some other town halfway between his wife's job and home, eats dinner in a restaurant (every day), and gets home around 9.

WTF.

There are people out there who commute for over four hours a day. To meet them, take a local Greyhound out of a major center (like Boston) at rush hour. I met a couple of people who commuted from Vermont to Boston every day.

I commute 3 hours a day in NYC (1.5 hours each way by express bus)

Yikes. I'm so grateful that I can work from home.

I commuted in and around Boston for many years. It's just an exhausting, draining experience. Even a crummy, poorly maintained subway system is better than sitting in traffic jams for 30-45 minutes at a stretch. On the train/bus, you can at least close your eyes, or read a book.

I live in a D.C. suburb and commuted two hours each way daily down to Quantico for almost 2 years. My employer didn't tell me that I would be working there even though HQ was in D.C. so I just had to deal with it.

This isn't that strange for America, is it?

If you live near a VRE station in northern VA, the VRE is cheaper, cleaner, more reliable and faster. The only downside is it is only a commuter train meaning it goes in rush hour direction only and at longer intervals than Metro. but it is hands down waaaay better.

When I had to get to LEnfant plaza I took the Burke station VRE straight into town. Weekly passes were ~$60-70, and my commute was 1 hour including the 15min to get to Burke station. Taking the Metro on the other hand, cost me closer to $100 per week, took 30 minutes to get to Vienna metro (because hellacious traffic on 50/66 daily) and another 45-60 minutes to get to LEnfant.

Hands down VRE was better.

I live within walking distance of the Burke VRE and my girlfriend still uses a combination of Commuter bus + Orange Line metro. Perhaps we'll look into that. I'm getting mighty tired of having to pick her up every night from Vienna.

The lack of planning and forethought is criminal for the taxes we're paying.

Well, do keep in mind the origins of the Metro itself- I've talked with older residents in DC who remember when Metro was being built people were terrified it'd bring the problems of the inner city out to the suburbs; remember that it was being planned/built in the late 60s/early 70s when DC was a much more violent and scary city than it is today. This is what led to the system being inefficient and weirdly laid out in the first place.

And totally skipping Georgetown.

Metro didn't skip Georgetown by choice, that's a myth.

Are you implying that the stops weren't deliberately chosen?

I'm saying that a Metro stop in Georgetown was obviously desirable, but technical constraints prevented its construction. There's an urban legend that community opposition forced Metro to cancel plans to build a stop there, but there's no evidence that's true.

See e.g. http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/423/georgetown-neve...

I don't think that's right. I've heard this story before too, but I don't think it played much of a role in the Metro layout. The system map implies the exact opposite of what you're saying: it's very good at bringing people from the suburbs to downtown and back. That's actually one of the main criticisms of it today: that it is set up like a commuter rail and not a subway.

I'm also a DC area resident and I agree with your analysis. Fortunately, I have an easy commute out here in the suburbs and use Metro mostly on weekends and evenings for non-work trips. But even then, there are times I drive in because it can be quicker and the trains run so infrequently at night that it can take a long time to get home. I like a lot about the Metro, but the maintenance issue has become a serious burden. And I agree that the multi-jurisdiction issue is a big part of the problem.

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