Ban on unscientific "bomb detector" after $85M sales | Hacker News Reader

Ban on unscientific "bomb detector" after $85M sales

news.bbc.co.uk

44 pointsjodrellblank28 comments

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Whether it's magic or scientific, what I care about is it detects bombs

I suppose, if most cars don't have bombs in them, and it never detects bombs, it is right most of the time...

Yeah but the false negatives are a bitch!

The parallels with the information security products industry here are stark.

Data/IP loss doesn't really compare to loss of life, if you ask me.

That's a straw man, as that isn't what tptacek is saying. He is obviously talking about parallels in the causes of security incidents. That the consequences are different, and arguably incomparable, is irrelevant to the correctness of his observation.

Wow I hate corruption. The fact that this was a UK company is interesting, because it means there's actually a chance of some kind of justice. The execs of this company should be tried for fraud + multiple manslaughter, or at least product liability resulting in multiple deaths. The investigators should also dig to find out if they bribed any officials to make the sales.. in which case I consider this mass-murder.

The man behind the fraud was arrested yesterday: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8476381.stm

How does bribery switch the crime from multiple manslaughter to mass murder in your mind?

One feels like allowing people to die (offering a dangerous product), and the other feels like forcing people to die (coercing officials to require use of a dangerous product).

I don't understand. Why would the Iraqis buy these devices? Nobody else is using them and there's no evidence it works. It's not like they're idiots. Are they just desperate for anything to improve the situation?

Why do people pay dowsers to tell them where to dig a well? Why do people - some very intelligent - pay a fortune teller to tell them their future? Why do people - some very intelligent - tithe to protect their soul in the afterlife?

Never underestimate how easy it is to separate a desperate man from his money.

And the the related: you can't con an honest man.

I hate that expression. Of course you can con an honest man.

For example, you could set up a high quality internet store offering, say, cameras for a few dollars less than everyone else. There is nothing dishonest about buying from there - it is simply trying to get a good deal. And yet if the store then simply takes the money and sends nothing, they have indeed conned an honest man.

And the the related: you can't con an honest man.

Of course you can. Here's three types of cons that would work on honest men:

1) Romance scams: The con artist develops a relationship with the target (mark). The con artist then develops a range of fraudulent reasons that they need money from the mark, from needing the money to travel to the mark's country to see them to needing the money for cancer treatment.

2) Various fake medical cures. There's a huge industry of these preying on cancer victims, for instance.

3) The melon drop: a scammer will pretend to bump into the mark and drop a package that's already broken, then demand compensation.

There are many, many more. Merely being "honest" is no protection.

Given who bought them, there's probably some higher-up getting kickbacks as part of the deal.

Bingo. General X doesn't need to care (much) if the product works. He's not the one doing the bomb checking. Nor is it his own money he's spending. And if he gets a tidy 10% back, he can soon retire somewhere where there aren't bombs.

An aside: what is the psychology of someone who perpetrates something like this? Fraud is one thing, but fraud which can (and has) led to the deaths of hundreds of people? Does he actually believe his products work, or is he a psychopath?

Probably a little of both. But they can't print that - it's the UK, after all.

> An aside: what is the psychology of someone who perpetrates something like this?

For some great insights on that mentality read Joseph Heller, Catch 22.

General X's name is Major Gerneral Jihad Al Jahbiri. James Randi had offered him the million dollar prize he he could prove they were effective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruTmqfGJhTI

Probably because Arab's hate dogs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_animals#Dogs As has been mentioned else where in discussions of airport security bomb sniffing dogs are state of the art in explosives detection. So if they won't use dogs that probably leaves them few other choices.

Here's a news story about Muslims in Canada complaining about the potential use of bomb sniffing dogs.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/12/10/b...

Corruption. You pay 100k dollars to few government higher ups to back up your case then you can sell lots of 40k dowsing rods and no one will argue because higher ups can't be that foolish, right? An if they are you can't say this out loud. Especially because this is about security. Important stuff. You may have to do some sciency talk that no one will understand or verify but all will revere.

Tamiflu is being purchased by governments for exactly same reasons.

You just have to grease the wheels then you can roll like hell.

"Mr McCormick told the BBC in a previous interview that "the theory behind dowsing and the theory behind how we actually detect explosives is very similar"."

That about sums it up...

I'm not trying to suggest this device works.

On the other hand, we hired a guy to dowse and dig a water well when I was a kid. He dowsed, and drilled a well.

Just an 'anecdatum'.

I'm under the impression that groundwater is reachable from almost anywhere, provided that one digs deep enough.

Yup, that's why they call it a water table. There are exceptions if one happens to live in very dry areas with interesting geology, but generally any piece of land is good enough for a well if you dig deep enough.

"The government has just banned the export of these devices to some countries on the grounds that they could put the lives of UK forces at risk, but they are still able to export to other countries."

Because "lives of UK forces" are at risk and only they needed to be protected by evil entrepreneur of UK. Evil what???

1. Invade 2. Destroy infrastructure 3. Create chaos 4. Let bombs blow people 5. Now sell arms to other opponent as well 6. Now sell them faulty machinery for defense 7. Wait!!! we got some our people there too 8. So stop selling there.... but because we care about money so let these be sold to other idiots. We Rock! We peace lovers! We humans, the most civilized in history!!!

I can't help but feel that perhaps Mr McCormick should be out there himself searching for bombs with his device.

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