Apple Maps, once a laughingstock, now dominates iPhones | Hacker News Reader

Apple Maps, once a laughingstock, now dominates iPhones

bigstory.ap.org

20 pointssubdane56 comments

Speaking as a developer and as someone who spends a lot of time configuring and using iPhones, this is is not surprising and indicative of nothing. The native Apple apps on iPhones have access to resources we as third party developer's can't touch, and integration with each other that no third party developer can even come close to matching unless we reinvent half the OS. Add to it that the only way we're allowed to make, say, a navigation app is to offer a service that a native Apple app does not (we're not allowed to "duplicate functionality," per the developer agreement) and stories like this mean absolutely dick to me. Of course it dominates the iPhone platform, but stick Apple maps on any other platform and it would fall on it's face.

Better than something like Mapquest? Probably. And the integration tools are great too, as are notifications on departure time and whatnot, but the actual app, judged by it's capabilities is nothing compared to Google Maps.

Yeah... put Apple Maps on Android and see what people pick. Or put aMaps and gMaps on Windows...

That's like bragging iTunes is king on the iPhone... of course it is... that doesn't mean it isn't a bloated mess.

Indeed. Anyone can dominate a platform if they've got the right to ban competing apps from it. I'm sure the EU will get round to this in 2025 or so.

Unlikely, Apple's always had a walled garden when it came to iOS and to be blunt that's why the iOS experience is as good as it is, I would still take an iPhone over an Android any day of the week simply because I'm at the point in my life where I have enough to keep working that I don't want to have to keep my phone working.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying then to turn around and claim how star spangled awesome your software must be by the metrics is more than a little dishonest.

Why whould EU do anything to makers ability to do whatever they want with their product? Don't like Apple, get Android or Windows Phone. Or will EU also do something about me not being able to run iOS apps on Android. You see, I prefer iOS versions, they are nicer.

Artificially coupling distinct products like that should be illegal, just like you can't make a car that runs on only Ford gas (you can make a car that runs on diesel, or gas, or only on high-octane, but it has to be some published standard). What the EU should require is that device makers offer a published API (and published review standards etc.) and use only the published APIs for any bundled apps, so that other app-makers can compete on a level playing field, and other device-makers can implement competitive devices for running the same apps.

Why should Apple be required to make the iPhone a level playing field for anyone? This is like when blackberry wanted the government to force people to make apps for their platform, that's not how the market works.

You're under no obligation to use an iPhone anymore than I'm under obligation to use a blackberry.

Because they're distinct businesses. Because it's in consumers' interests to have competition among app makers even if everyone's using the same hardware.

I mean, it's not like they've banned other mapping apps. This seems like the reddest of herrings to me.

For the record: I do love the iPhone and it's capabilities and how everything really does "just work," but for Apple or anyone to turn that around and say "Wow Apple must just be killing it, their software does so well on the iPhone" is like saying your horse won a race after you went around the stalls and shot the other ones in the kneecaps. Yeah, of course you freaking won, no one is surprised and it doesn't mean shit.

Please stop confusing possessive "its" with "it's". It really makes it hard to read

My experience in Singapore is that Google Maps trumps Apple Maps on finding points of interest. However with driving directions Apple is a lot easier to follow. Apple tends to alert at better points before turn and also give more precise information about the turn. Example would be the number of the exit from the express way. So I've resorted to finding the address in Google and then using Apple for the directions.

I would agree with all those points, except that Apple Maps regularly gives straight up wrong directions in terms of the infrastructure. I know of one interchange near Chicago where it consistently presents as "you need to veer right to proceed on this highway" where it's actually the left lanes you need and they spur right afterward. I've never had a similar error out of another navigation app or service.

Apple Maps once lead me to a highway ramp on the wrong side.

Bollocks. Google Maps has just been in a continuous downward spiral on both desktop and iOS.

The naysayers at the Apple Maps launch were extremely short sighted. It was always going to improve significantly over time. Mapping and especially navigation is a data problem and Apple didn't have the data to roll out an A* star service worldwide at launch.

I think the biggest problem was it was rushed a little toward the end, most of it seemed there and then parts of it felt like they got done in the last 48 hours. But that's pure speculation.

>Speaking as a developer and as someone who spends a lot of time configuring and using iPhones, this is is not surprising and indicative of nothing. The native Apple apps on iPhones have access to resources we as third party developer's can't touch, and integration with each other that no third party developer can even come close to matching unless we reinvent half the OS.

Not really relevant as the exact same situation (plus having to install it manually) didn't stop Google Maps be used more than Apple's in the first years of the Apple Maps service.

There's also this: somehow Google Maps keeps getting worse. Even on the Desktop version with the horrible redesign, but also the iOS app after they split it with Apple was horrible (it couldn't even zoom at the level you wanted reliably).

Well to it's credit, Apple Maps has gotten steadily better since it's somewhat premature release. It's not as if it was terrible when it came out and only gets where it is SOLELY on it's positioning.

Do I think it would've done as well without that positioning though? No. Brings many advantages not had by most apps.

As to Google Maps getting worse I honestly can't speak on it, I occasionally use it to find and verify addresses for shipping stuff I sell, that's about it and it always works fine for that task.

I dumped Apple Maps when I noticed the data for my area was either never accurate or is at least 2 years out of date, and Google Maps seems fine to me on iOS. I don't have that zoom problem and since it's a Google app it actually has a one finger zoom gesture too.

I got a notification yesterday too saying they've added public transport navigation in London. Whether they actually added it yesterday or just didn't notify me about it when I was in London on monday I'm not sure - but they have it nowhere else I've lived and Google have it everywhere else.

Google have had public transport maps everywhere I've been so far this year, Seattle, San Fran, Brisbane, Amsterdam and Birmingham. I'll admit though, the transport information in Amsterdam was pretty inaccurate at times, so I'll stick with 9292 whenever I'm over there. Brisbane's is fantastic, they use the APIs provided by the transit company there and it shows real-time delays and stuff too.

The other day I used Apple Maps to turn up at a business meeting. I didn't notice it said "approximate location". Or, if I did, I probably thought since it was in a mall that the location was somewhere in the mall. Anyway, I turned up at the "approximate address". Guess how far off it was? Almost 5km. This was on a main street in my city that goes from one end of the city to the other.

Not being a devils advocate here, but this actually isn't bad.

Some offline GPS navigation app solutions locate a specific address number you entered the same way - on the wanted street (which can be couple Km). But it doesn't indicate it's only an approximation, since it doesn't have the correct location in its maps database. Sygic is one of those from the top of my mind and it uses TomTom as mapping provider, same as Apple does.

I see. Thanks for the explanation.

We were not offline at any point, but I get what you are saying, it might just use estimates. While I get that, we really were at the complete opposite end of the street. This didn't seem like an error of factor f, but that perhaps -f.

Hopefully you reported the error, they do incorporate those!

I was so late for the meeting. My friend whipped out his android phone and said, "WHY DIDN'T YOU USE GOOGLE MAPS" and I was at a loss for words. It was basically schrodinger's cat all over again.

I wonder if it's not just because it's integrated with other apps, and a top suggestion when you want maps. I still find that google maps is leaps and bounds ahead for navigation.

I'm sure that's it. Sort of how most people use Internet Explorer on Windows, because it's the default.

From the article:

>Many people use Apple Maps just because it comes with the phone. Even if you've taken the trouble to download a competing app, other iPhone services such as Siri and Mail will invariably take you to Apple Maps.

>Without the ability to steer users this way, Apple "would not be in the position they are in," IDC analyst John Jackson said. "Not that they aren't improving the experience, but this helps the cause."

I'm sure that's it. Sort of how most people use Internet Explorer on Windows, because it's the default.

That's a faulty argument, because most people do not use Internet Explorer on Windows. Chrome's desktop share is at 60%, compared with IE's at 16%.

Clearly people are happy to use non-default applications.

According to the below website IE has the largest market share on desktops. I'm not sure how accurate these stats are.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr...

Maybe people shouldn't rely on it so much but I don't think the service is good enough for safe travel. Seems all that's changed is that it is now dominant. My perception of quality hasn't changed since the 'laughing stock' news hype when released.

That, and for me personally also because i avoid Google products whenever i can since i will be paying (for these "free apps") with my privacy. I only resort to Google Maps if i can't find something in Apple Maps.

As far as i'm aware, Apple Maps is only usable for people who payed for Apple devices, which is why Apple doesn't have to sell my privacy to create a Maps app.

Google Maps however, is "free" for anyone to use.

I am curious (genuinely -- no snark) if your concern is mostly a theoretical/political one or if it's more personal? Are you worried that you might somehow be compromised because of lax privacy? If so, how? Or is it that you don't agree with the idea of your data being in the hands of Google and/or sold to others?

I rather pay for services with money instead of privacy, unless i know my data is being used for a good cause. For example i don't mind sharing my data in a hospital with a university for educational purposes.

However, for example, I don't like sharing my data with LinkedIn, who then sells it, makes a huge profit, and even tries to sell the gathered data back to the users themselves in order to get full access to search results.

Also this is a good example which explains how people don't seem to value digital privacy equal to "real life privacy" (probably because they don't fully understand?) : https://ar.al/notes/schnail-mail-free-real-mail-for-life/

PS. to all the people downvoting, it's rather childish to downvote, without replying/communicating at all, just because you don't agree with my opinion. If you think facts are wrong then reply something constructive.

And exactly who Google sells your privacy?

To ad companies for example:

http://www.imore.com/giving-up-on-google

https://startpage.com/do/search?query=google+sells+privacy&c...

What is selling Google to ad companies?

The same thing Apple is selling with iAds?

> The same thing Apple is selling with iAds?

Yea you have a point there.

It's less of a problem though because i only see iAds if i download and use "free" apps, which i don't. There is always the possibility to buy the apps, and in this case i won't ever see any ads at all.

However there is no way to pay for Google products like Google Search or Gmail to 'not see ads'. Google always sells your data. It's obvious of course, how else can they deliver a free product and cover their costs...

In the UK I've found Google maps unusable for navigation. It will consistently fail to give turnings and exits until too late. On the other hand, the only problem I've found with Apple maps is the weird pronunciation of road numbers.

Most users won't look for the best app, but for the first that is good enough.

The first things where people will look are: Stuff already installed on the device; Stuff that people already used before.

If IE6 didn't have fatal flaws like a lack of tabs, alternative browsers would have never gotten so big.

I use Gmaps in South Africa a lot. The traffic detector feature is super useful however it hass got me into some hairy situations. Just a few months back there were protesters burning tires and stoning cars on a road, so there were no cars on the road, so Google Maps took me straight through it. That was intense, no damage luckily.

Then not much after that an area in the Cape Town CBD became flooded due to heavy rains, and Gmaps directed me and a few other unsuspecting victims straight into it due to there being absolutely NO traffic.

Suppose the warnings take longer to filter through the system than the traffic updates.

We (my girlfriend and I) had the same same experience in the UK, on different phones. She has an iPhone, which directed us down a seemingly low-trafficked and very direct-to-destination road. I have a Lumia with Here Maps (Windows 10 version), which directed us on some crazy detour on roads showing heavy traffic. Turns out the road the iPhone recommended was closed for construction. Here Maps was on the money.

When I was in NYC last month, Apple Maps walking directions were consistently better than Google Maps. It was shocking. Overall, it's still not nearly as good as Google but I'm much more likely to try both now and compare, than just assume Google is always better.

This doesn't surprise me at all. If something's installed by default, that's what most people use.

In fact, I've found that the very idea of using a mapping app to navigate is still foreign to a large percentage of people. If someone is wondering how long it will take to walk somewhere and I suggest they check using Google Maps, I still get a confused look about 50% of the time.

There's another way to look at it : the fact the apple maps is tightly integrated to iOS also means that it "contaminates" all the other services for the OS with its bad quality.

I would love to have siri use google services to guide me on a map. Or calendar show me locations on google maps. Yet, every time i use those great services, i have a bad experience because of Apple Maps.

What's good is that Apple Maps is slowly improving. They do seem to be fixing inaccuracies and problems. However, it's still crap. In my local streets, I can see countless mistakes (businesses in the wrong place, out-of-date entries, etc)

There's also now a problem with too much information, of the wrong kind. For instance, I opened up Maps the other day to discover that it listed a children's clothing shop just opposite my house. I live on a residential street, there's no shop there!

Intrigued, I clicked on the marker, visited their web page and found out that yes, the company does exist, but it's an online shop and the owner just happens to live near me. So Apple have scraped a database of companies and found lots of registered addresses, but putting this information on the map unfiltered is completely useless.

They've got a lot more improvements to make...

I still have a lingering distrust of Apple Maps, thanks to its disastrous launch. It's good to hear that it's getting better, because Google Maps - at least around London - seems to be getting worse. Some road names that used to be correct have been renamed incorrectly (e.g. Upper Richmond Road now shows up as South Circular Road) and others have changed to use a correct but uncommon name (the M25 - probably the busiest motorway in the whole of the UK! - shows up as "London Orbital Motorway", which is a name I don't think anyone has used for it since before Google even existed). I've reported all these of course, but as always there's no way of knowing if the bug report will ever be seen by a human. Maybe it's time to give Apple Maps a second chance.

Just yesterday, I made the mistake of asking Siri where the closest UPS store was. After a 15 minute drive, there was no UPS store at the destination. Had to use Google Maps instead, which took me to the correct location.

> But ultimately, Apple Maps doesn't need to be the best. It just needs to be good enough that its users won't look for something else.

Spot on. Being given the default spot will keep Apple Maps in the same position as Internet Explorer 6 was in the noughties and iTunes has been for the past six years: Since the app is the default and there is nothing to gain by improving it, with time any ambitious developers will migrate away and it will stay barely good enough not to be an embarrassment.

I had a go at showing an iPhone user where something was on Maps - I failed... (after i had just done it on my phone)

I use Android and Google Maps just works, has stars and is awesome. Finds everything when you search for it and just works. Plus browser to device or device to browser via stars is great. There are some annoying things, however the big things work well.

Apple Maps is a pile of junk :/

Slightly off-topic, but I can honestly say I've never once used Apple's Maps application that now comes with Mac OS X (not iOS). Does anyone use this? It probably ought to be faster or better integrated or something than opening Google Maps in a web browser, but, despite being in the dock, I just never, ever remember to use it...

I'm not in a big city and not in the USA, and Apple Maps routinely sends me to the wrong place when I lookup addresses.

This shouldn't be surprising. It has primary position on iOS and has tight integration with Siri, Apple Watch, Continuity, Contacts etc.

It has a terrible navigation backend (has no qualms about suggesting destinations in other countries) but you only notice it if you compare it say Google Maps.

I actually make an effort to regularly use Apple Maps in order to fix their bad data, and it still hasn't quite replaced Google Maps for me.

Google Maps is still way better by every metric (accuracy, design, user experience, navigation, etc) except NYC subway entrances.

The power of default.

Never underestimate it - Dropbox should be worried about such a move.

The mighty power of defaults.

Waze

Reply on news.ycombinator.com