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Comment by julienchastang | Hacker News Reader

The murder of Lavoisier is one of the most horrible outcomes of the French Revolution -- which was generally horrific, mass drownings [1], Reign of Terror (the word 'terrorism' comes from this episode in French history[2]) and whatnot. That is what I think about on Le Quatorze Juillet.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drownings_at_Nantes [2] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=terrorism

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I'm suspicious that you can really describe the French Revolution as "generally horrific". Sure, there were quite a few executions (~40k or so), that were often arbitrary and spectacular. And the Vendée rebellion got massacred (~100k+ depending on the source) [1]. But what really contributed to the death toll were the Revolutionary wars [2] and the Napoleon campaigns [3].

By contrast, modern warfare with machine guns, artillery, bombers, and genocide regularly yielded much higher death tolls [4].

[1] http://necrometrics.com/wars18c.htm#FrRev1

[2] http://necrometrics.com/wars18c.htm#FrRev

[3] http://necrometrics.com/wars19c.htm#Napoleonic

[4] http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm

There is something particularly horrific about being killed in a political purge. Getting killed by a falling bomb isn't personal; you just happened to be under the wrong piece of airspace at the wrong time. The people who died in the Reign of Terror or Stalin's Purges or the Cambodian genocide lost a pernicious game of playground politics. Their executioners knew their names.

Well, you need to put the numbers in perspective. In 1789 the population of Paris was around 600-700k. So in relative terms, an amount of people that is equivalent to 6%ish of Paris got executed, and in total a fifth of the equivalent of Paris died. Seems pretty bad to me. Also, all this happened in 3 short years.

Besides, they're both just really horrific. "40k is nothing" is not quite the right attitude here.

Of course. But consider:

- Over a 5 year period, ~40k is ~8k/year or around 22/day for the French revolution, with a population of ~26M around 1790.

- Over a 29 year period, ~20M is ~700k/year or around 1.7k/day for Staline, with a population of around ~102M around 1950.

Not discounting the horrific nature of getting your head chopped off of course. But all things equal the guillotine and arbitrary executions during the French revolution was nowhere near as deadly as Staline or other 20th-century mass-murder regimes. Humanity made great "progress" in between the two in its ability to industrialize murder.

another fun fact about them:

Marie-Anne Paulze Lavoisier, his wife remarried to a rich publisher after Lavoisier's death, who supported her to publish a lot of the work. (both awesome people) David, the guy who painted this portrait was the person who signed Lavoisier's guillotine papers. The story goes David was an amateur scientist, had some presentations, and was humiliated when Lavoisier make it clear that it was pseudo science. David wanted to be elected to the royal society but because of this never got to. He was a friend but thus became the enemy. He also painted the painting "death of Marat". He himself was executed a year later.

David died in 1825. He fell out of favour for his part in the Terror but was kept on and even offered roles in the restored monarchy.

Thanks for the correction!

Revolutions are violent, especially when they are over-throwing 10 centuries of monarchy.

Did you know that the 14th of July is not a celebration of the storming of the Bastille? It is actually celebrating the 14th of July 1790, the Fête de la Fédération, a pacific celebration of the French nation.

Or it has its origins in both. Especially as the Fête de la Fédération was the commemoration the year after the storming of the Bastille.

It might help were the 14th not commonly referred to as Bastille day and feature a military parade.

14th July isn't referred to as Bastille day in France though, and the parade doesn't have much to do with the Revolution either, it's just common for countries to have a military parade on the national day.

Try to call it Bastille Day in France, nobody would have a clue what you're talking about.

The parade started in 1880, and was a political move after the defeat of 1870. Today it's a diplomatic event, foreign corps are invited, as well as heads of state.

It is referred to as "Prise de la Bastille", not "Bastille Day"

In 1989, for the bicentennial, primary school held ceremonies/parties, some kids built a cardboard milk box Bastille prison replica.

"There were two 'Reigns of Terror,' if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the 'horrors' of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves." —A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, Mark Twain

Why does the reaction always get all the attention, but the corruption and decadence that preceded and precipitated it goes with barely a mention.

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