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Comment by Analemma_ | Hacker News Reader

My takeaway from this is that the $80 Apple charger is definitely safer and has higher-quality components than the $12 cheapo Chinese charger, but not nearly so much better that it solely explains the price difference, and that Apple is making a healthy margin on these things. So my question is, is anyone selling a quality charger without the Apple tax? Is there anyone making, say, $40 chargers that have the components of the real thing?

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I doubt it, since the magnetic connector itself is patented, and they apparently don't license it— which is why the BatteryBox connector is such an awkward hack: https://www.getbatterybox.com/shop

Wow.I never gave much thought to Apple's magnetic connector till.The battery box does look like an ugly hack.But what I dont get is.Its magnets attracting.What and exactly what have they patented?

Well it's their own connector too, not a standard like USB. Everything about it is likely patented.

Using a magnet to connect to the device.

You can't just reduce something to its simplest component when discussing patents. It's the specific application that matters.

I guess this would be similar to the Samsung/Apple patent wars which happened?I guess that explains why no-one else tried making anything similar.

Magnetic self-locating connectors have been around forever. I have a waffle iron from the 60's that's got one. The patented part is the specific size and shape (and pinout I guess) of that particular connector that prevents 3rd parties from making compatible adapters. Apple is far from alone in trying to profit from that shenanigan. It is, of course, profoundly wasteful for manufactures to pursue "nickle-and-dime" profits in this manner at the expense of the public and the environment. Something the cellphone charging standard in Europe tried to address.

Just goes to show that there are plenty of places where Apple doesn't do much thinking different after all.

I wonder how patenting a specific implementation of an already-known thing is allowed. Why is this considered an original invention?

Among other things, it violates the intent of patents "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

I think they've patented innovations in their thing like you can put it in either way up and it's got a chip with little lights in the end. They waffle on for pages in http://www.google.com/patents/US7311526

I'm not sure they should be able to patent fairly simple upgrades like that but I guess that's the US patent system.

That's funny. They have 4 different connectors inside the package: https://datazone-gbatteries.netdna-ssl.com/assets/buy/galler...

I'm sure they've considered it, but my first thought would be to buy a magsafe to magsafe 2 converter for each batterybox and use that as the connector.

Seems like that would be better looking, but maybe it's still impractical.

Actually that was the intention if you looked at the original crowdfunding video. But a call from Apple prevented that from happening due to licensing issues of using their converters.

I have been curious since I saw this. Does batterybox really works? And if it does then why aren't any big player licensing the tech.

How can it bypass the charging and directly power the laptop using the same connector?

Not quite on point, but I hope someone soon creates a small adapter with a USB 3.0/3.1 Power Delivery-compatible plug on one end, and my laptop's charger plug on the other end. Then I'll be able to invest in a very high-quality 100-watt USB power supply that will work with any legacy laptops I have lying around. I expect all my future laptops/mobile devices will be Type C/USB 3.1, so I'll keep using that power supply for many years.

The problem is the market at the moment is terrible.

When buy genuine Apple or Samsung you know the quality is good. But when you pay something closer to what it should cost, who knows what you're getting? Could be a decent charger, could be heavily marked up Chinese junk.

It's because the market is so fragmented. USB-C and USB power delivery will do a huge amount of good.

The USB smartphone charger market is starting to produce genuinely well made third party products.

Fly-by-nights are going to destroy customer confidence in USB-C - just look at the reviews on Amazon.

Reference: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494

I recently bought a VESA monitor conversion kit for an apple display (why Apple can get away with charging $1000 for a 27 inch display is beyond me) that turned out to be a knock off. It looked IDENTICAL to the official apple version on the outside but the screws didn't line up perfectly and it was clearly an inferior product. I'm not planning on skimping again, even for essentially just a hunk of machined metal.

I wouldn't buy one (I've got two Dell UltraSharps and I'm happy as a clam), but an Apple 27" monitor is also a Thunderbolt dock, most of which retail around $200. It's more expensive than its competitors, but I think that it's merely overpriced instead of exorbitant.

Wouldn't the fact that the lower priced stuff is usually junk indicate that what it "should" cost is closer to what Apple charges?

It indicates that both the governments and the industry have dropped the ball on enforcing the law against small companies. When you look at what this guy is doing with the Apple-compatible power supplies and cables, or the Google reviews of USB-C cables on Amazon, it shows the sorry state we're in.

One of the major advantages of EU/US markets is that laws are enforced. This allows you to compete on fair terms. In theory, the products should be recalled, the companies that import them fined, and their principals either fined, barred from directing a company, or criminally prosecuted. But does that ever happen? When laws are not enforced, law-breakers will be able to undercut you, and drive you from the market. Which is exactly what has happened here.

Or is there a charger at Apple's price, but more reliable?

Groupon seems to be selling original ones starting at $30 (MacBook Air): https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-apple-magsafe-2-power-adapt...

I would assume it is counterfeit.

They include a 1 year warranty from Apple though which makes me think that they are genuine.

On ebay there are a couple that say genuine http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Original-AC-Power-Adapter-Ap...

I ordered one yesterday (not from this dealer in question) that also said genuine. Let's see what they will send to me.

>On eBay

>say genuine

Having been an eBay buyer/seller for a long time, I would put way less stock in someone on eBay saying a product is "genuine" than you appear to be.

I've been buying some ThinkPad chargers on eBay and never encountered outright fraud. When they say genuine, they really are. Otherwise they use different words.

They usually work, but I've never seen a legitimate name brand coming from Hong Kong via eBay. My experience was mostly in sporting equipment, and the stuff that I ordered looked and smelled like it was "Adidas" or "Nike," and even said "Nike," but it obviously wasn't made by Adidas or Nike.

Aren't the actual, truly genuine Lenovo parts made there, too? Hong Kong is a Chinese territory.

Lots of actual stuff is made (or shipped) from Hong Kong. I don't know enough about the specifics of Lenovo, I'm just saying I've bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars of items on eBay, and I've never yet seen a "genuine" name brand on eBay that shipped from Hong Kong that was actually legitimate.

If I had to bet money on it, I would guess that these are the same type of things that you find in Chinese "fake markets" - name brand items that would pass as name brand to anyone who is not very, very familiar with the brand. If it works it doesn't matter in the end, but I've seen some real duds from those types of markets, as well. Maybe they "fell off the truck," but my money is on that they're fakes that are designed to resemble the real thing as closely as they can.

I wouldn't be so trusting. In the best case they are real, or ghost shift production. In the worst case they are fakes that have all the safety features cut out. There's no way to know unless you open them up.

From eBay, shipped from Hong Kong... I'm sure it's a genuine charger, but I would bet against it being a genuine Apple charger.

I've had good luck ordering used Apple chargers from U.S. sellers on eBay; they have always turned out to be genuine and at a reasonable price.

I've bought two replica chargers for $20-30 off ebay.. i'm on my second. The first one lasted a year, which is about how long my original charger lasted due to the cord fraying

The OP shows why replica chargers are not a good idea. You're lucky if it doesn't destroy your machine.

So far I've used about 7 cheapo MacBook chargers off eBay - I have two right now, and have, over the years, given the other 5 away.

While a couple of them have died, so have my original three MacBook chargers. None of them has killed or damaged mine, or anyone else's MacBooks.

Yes, some people have good experiences, but it's still incredibly reckless. Chargers without proper safety features and which don't conform to electrical isolation standards could render your $1000+ machine worthless in a puff of smoke, or, worse, kill you.

The 'Original Apple' item shown at the bottom of the post doesn't look as if it fared much better though. The magic smoke definitely came out on that one and whoever owned it was lucky it ended there and didn't end with an actual fire.

It could also be the Apple charger's design that makes it able to handle shorting of components without posing a hazard to anything other than itself.

Apple's own charger follows safety standards. It might blow up, but it won't take your laptop with it.

Upthread there is someone saying that their Apple charger set fire to their carpet, and the only reason why it wasn't worse was because they were in the room at the time to stop it.

Nobody in the history of personal computers has been killed by a charger.

You can't know that. You can't know that there haven't been house fires caused by a charger, for example.

Here's a recent house fire that killed five people, started by a phone charger.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/10/phone-charger-started-fire-tha...

I doubt that short circuits have never killed anyone. That's not the only way a charger could kill you: DanBC points out the risk of fire, which is also a possibility.

There are multiple reports of phone chargers killing people: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-07/14/c_1325400... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950641/Woman-electr... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2671493/Woman-dies-e... http://shanghaiist.com/2015/03/15/girl_from_hebei_dies_after...

If you look inside cheap chargers (as I have), it's not surprising that they occasionally kill people.

It depends on your luck... and I am unlucky. My knock-off charger completely destroyed the power supply in my MacBook Pro after a few months of using it.

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