Hacker News Reader

Comment by mrdrozdov | Hacker News Reader

Just to verify, railroads are the most efficient mode of transportation? We wouldn't want roads with electric vehicles instead, right?

As analogy, I guess I'd compare the electrical grid to solar panels with batteries (think Tesla Power Wall).

View on HN

Rail is vastly more efficient at transporting people and goods in large volume. This is why automated cars won't turn rail investments irrelevant.

The RER B in Paris, a two tracks north-south rail tunnel, is equivalent in capacity to a 40+ lanes highway. Even with automated vehicles, you cannot move the capacity of the Paris, New-York or Tokyo rail network to surface transportation.

Freight rail is about 4x more efficient than freight trucks. Electric freight trucks are more efficient than gasoline ones, but are totally experimental.

And then you remember that electric trains have existed for a very long time. Rail wins hand over fist.

Waterways are the most efficient, but I don't believe Ethiopia is flat enough to make use of its rivers for transport.

Here's a comparison - http://business.tenntom.org/why-use-the-waterway/shipping-co...

Are waterways more efficient? Trains can be powered entirely using electricity. Ships require either burning heavily polluting fuel or using nuclear power (which is so unpopular politically that it is not in use). So I would argue that by one major measure of efficiency, environmental pollution, both of particulates and CO2, electric-powered trains win out. Of course, it's a lot easier to do electric-powered trains in built up areas that already have power grids; less so if the area you're going through is completely undeveloped.

>using nuclear power (which is so unpopular politically that it is not in use)

While there may be political issues related to making nuclear fuel/technology widely used, it's also not economically viable to have US Navy-level-trained techs (and associated safety infrastructure) available on cargo boats--especially for short-haul transportation.

Did you read the article? Even if you have 100% efficient and perfectly operating trucks, they still can't deal with the sheer number of them. By 2020, 8000 trucks a day will be leaving the Djibouti port, which is just not sustainable.

Any time someone says the phrase "electric vehicle," substitute "coal-fired vehicle" and you'll have a much better understanding of what's going on.

EV technology is cool, but it's only "clean" or "zero emissions" if the power plant is also clean and zero emissions.

The government is investing heavily on modernizing the roads right now, but it's a little hard to imagine how bad the roads are. Here's a video that's pretty representative of roads throughout much of the country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTC2w860HKo

Now, there are some stretches of very modern highways and the road system is improving fast, but still getting around takes a long time due to heavy traffic, animals crossing the road (or just standing in the road), large amounts of foot traffic along and across the road, etc.

I have a hunch that even the most efficient electrical engines would have a hard time maintaining efficient operation with all the starting and stopping.

Rail is point to point efficient because of load but should always be considered just one part of the equation. Branching out from there is the real key to savings, there you get your electric trucks and such which provide the flexibility of delivery that rail cannot. Same reason I always favor buses in cities over light rail, buses can adapt to changes in population that light rail cannot

'Light Rail' is a fuzzy term; but in general any urban rail should be planned well, and should be accompanied with city planning that shouldn't allow the line to become obsolete. And that's actually not too hard - development follows rapid transit, if you let it.

Yup. Land near a rail station becomes quite a bit more valuable, for obvious reasons. Though here in Seattle they deliberately make it impossible to park near a rail station, then complain about low ridership.

Seattle, constrained as it is by the Puget Sound, Lake Washington, and the waterways, doesn't really have much option to grow without light rail because of the capacity.

In Cambridge/Somerville MA the (status TBD) light rail Green Line Extension has apparently already caused real estate prices to rise along the route. And the fact that the plans will be delayed and may be altered/canceled is causing some consternation among those who bought assuming it would happen.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/08/25/possible-del...

Road infrastructure is horrid. That said, rail infrastructure is even worse, which is why there are so few railways in Africa.

When economies of scale are factored I do believe rail is highly efficient.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com