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Comment by DonaldFisk | Hacker News Reader

The distance travelled over Turkish airspace, shown here: https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/669098577524822016/ph...

was less than 3km. At Mach 1, that takes less than 9 seconds. It appears to have flown over twice.

The pilots ejected, but were shot dead by Turkmen fighters while they parachuted down: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-34908469

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What's the incentive to do this? Isn't it enough to shoot the plane down? Why kill the pilots?

Wouldn't you at least want to interview or ask questions if you just shot them down?

They're different people. The Turkish air force shot down the plane, but it crashed in Syrian territory and the pilots were allegedly killed by ethnic Turkmen in Syria, who are not under the control of the Turkish government.

Though it's officially not the same, it's practically indistinguishable, because of the feeling of national identity and common purpose.

It's like if you really REALLY wanted to kill someone whom your neighbour also hates, and he bought a gun and just peacefully placed it on a table in front of you without saying a word.

They also hit one of the rescue helicopters with a missile. Shooting down the plane, killing of the pilots in the air (by Turkish assets), ambush of rescue party. This looks like a planed provocation to me. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-syria-c...

>(by Turkish Assets)

Source? Everything I've read says the Syrian Turkmen are certainly allies of Turkey, but not assets.

"..Turkish camps in Syria which the Turkmens are being trained, stating that it still takes place unofficially and in a secret way.[6][7] He added that Turkish Forces are training the Syrian Turks to protect their settlements and to join the fight with Syrian Turkmen Brigades in those secretly located camps. Nuceyfi also gave more information saying that Turkish officials have told that military supplies and weapons will be sent to Turkmens in Iraq and Syria in the near future but he isn't acquainted about the exact amount and date.

Later that day, Turkish 'officials' in Ankara, confirmed the statements of Esil Nuceyfi about the before and the positively promising future of the training of Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen_Brigades#Brigad... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/1201...

Yes, it's readily acknowledged that Turkish special forces have trained the Turkmen. But that is not the same as the Turkmen fighters being "Turkish Assets", which suggests command over their actions.

It's a very weird stance. So if a country officially trains forces (wouldn't say soldiers) in another country, it isn't like it influences and directs them just a little bit?

I see it like directly comparable to what the US did in most of the significant conflicts ever since the ww2. It didn't say what Osama bin Laden should do (back when he was a "good guy"), but it did give him intel support, training and guns, which is almost the same.

Not saying that the US is unique in this, it's just the most prolific and egregious by far. Turky is just learning from the best.

As the article mentions, the Turkmen are people in northern Syria, not Turkey, and have apparently had their villages bombed by the Russian military recently. A pretty strong incentive, I'd say.

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