Seems like the Muslims of 2015 are basically moving to the position of the Jews of 1915.
It's ok to explore the specifics of a current situation if one does so civilly and substantively. But when someone attacks Islam per se, that is a religious flamewar and we tell them it is not allowed: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=.... The goal is to avoid flamewars, in which vitriol is exceeded only by tedium—the same thing we seek to avoid everywhere.
Since Rumi is no less Islamic than ISIS, the discussions this excludes are not serious. HN can do without puerile generalization, and amateurs with a copy of the Quran and an idée fixe can conduct their exegesis elsewhere.
I think the mods should reconsider whether threads about religion are appropriate for HN. Lots of other totally legitimate discussions aren't legit on HN; for instance, I can talk your ear off about horse-race politics in the US, but am glad that the topic finds no purchase on HN.
As long as there are threads about religion (or, worse, political Islam) on HN, the good-faith users of the site are going to be saddled with the task of trying to flag aggressively uncivil comments out of the threads. It's just too easy to score easy points by snarking about religion. It's hard to keep up, a giant waste of time, and I think pretty dispiriting for everyone involved.
I agree, the focus should be more on the potential perniciousness of unchecked religious fundamentalism in general (it doesn't matter if it's the KKK or ISIS) and middle-east history of the last 15-30 years in particular (why do some people fall for such simplistic, de-humanizing organizations)?
ISIS is essentially a fascist movement and has as little to do with main-stream islamic values as the KKK has with christian ones.
You might find this article on the "why" less simplistic:
http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-inte...
I think putting time and effort into these kinds of political and religious discussions is very important as long as we keep a cool and open mind - love and understanding against potential fear and hate towards "others" so to speak. Peace! :)
Except that the Jews of 1915 were not blowing up, mas-murdering nor terrorizing people, nor were they waging war on non-Jews. Also, Jews were prosecuted throughout the world and eventually deported and/or killed, while Muslims are not in any way.
Concluding, it is not alike in any way.
Yeah, the rise in Zionist terrorism in Palestine was about 20 years after that.
I don't know what you try to frame as 'Zionist terrorism'. I am not a fan of many Israeli actions, but as far as I know there were no structural attempts of structurally terrorizing and brutalizing Palastinians by Israel that are in any way similar to what we see Isis doing today.
Acts of terrorism, including deliberate bombings, gunning down of civilians, etc., carried out by supporters of an independent Jewish state within what was then Mandatory Palestine by groups such as Irgun (a direct linear ancestor of the modern Likud Party.)
> I am not a fan of many Israeli actions, but as far as I know there were no structural attempts of structurally terrorizing and brutalizing Palastinians by Israel
Israel was largely built by people who engaged in terrorizing and brutalizing Palestinians in the name of the goal of creating the State of Israel. (To be fair, there was terrorism on both sides and organized terrorism on the Arab side against the Jewish side started first. But if we accept that targeting innocent civilians for terror is acceptable as long as someone did it to you first, well, most terrorist groups in history could point to someone who they saw as terrorizing the population they purport to represent first, and characterize their own terrorism as retribution against the group from which those attacks came, and supporters and sympathizers.)
You are saying that if a small subset of Jews were blowing up, mass-murdering and terrorizing people (which they did during the zionist insurgency, and are also doing today), That means that would justify the persecution of the world's Jews and the general anti-semitic sentiment of the mainstream during that period?
Of course not. But they were persecuted. But the point is: Muslims are not. So your opinion that Muslims are in the same position as the Jews in 1915 is nonsense.
> which they did during the zionist insurgency, and are also doing today
I think that implying that what Israel does today is similar to the barbaric acts of constant mass murdering, ethnic cleansing, torturing, raping and beheading that is done by Isis is absurd.
I didn't say we were. I said wewere moving to that position.
> I think that implying that what Israel does today is similar to the barbaric acts of constant mass murdering, ethnic cleansing, torturing, raping and beheading that is done by Isis is absurd
It is absurd and again i didn't imply it. Here is what you said :
>Except that the Jews of 1915 were not blowing up, mas-murdering nor terrorizing people, nor were they waging war on non-Jews.
and how i paraphrased it
>You are saying that if a small subset of Jews were blowing up, mass-murdering and terrorizing people
We can quibble over terminology, intentions, plausible deniability and collateral damage, but it is hard to deny that at a subset of Israeli actions can be reasonably construed as "blowing up, mass-murdering and terrorizing people".
Again my original point is :
ISIS isn't equal to all muslims same way zionist insurgent isn't equate to all jews.
Biggest victims of ISIS are muslims. So when you say "Except that the Jews of 1915 were not blowing up, mas-murdering nor terrorizing people, nor were they waging war on non-Jews" you are lumping all muslims together with isis which is frankly dangerous and abhorrent.
Your comment illustrates my original point. The Jews of 1915 were blamed by mainstream for lot of things they didn't do or had little to do with. Muslims as a group are being increasingly blamed for actions of a few people over which they have little/no control.
I went to school with Muslims during 9/11 (not many, but enough that I listened to them). I understand the frustration in your religion being singled out, misinterpreted and so forth.