Googlephone No Match for Kafkaesque Carriers | Hacker News Reader

Googlephone No Match for Kafkaesque Carriers

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28 pointscwan26 comments

I signed up for a SIM-only 30 day rolling contract with T-Mobile (UK) yesterday to stick in my unlocked iPhone.

For 600 minutes, 'unlimited' SMS text messages and 'unlimited' internet, I'm paying £20 a month.

I think the problem in the US is the lack of real competition. The GSM/CDMA thing splits the market and you just don't have enough players. The whole situation is very different in Europe.

(for comparison, my AT&T contract for 600 minutes, 300 text messages, "unlimited" 3g, costs - after taxes - approximately $110/mo)

And even the two GSM carriers (T-Mobile/AT&T) have different frequencies for 3G, so even though you can move an unlocked Nexus One across their voice networks, if you want 3G your choice of device determines your carrier.

I don't understand the article. I understand that the US mobile phone market is broken because there is too little competition between carriers, but in what way are the contracts perpetual?

You can get a cheaper plan if you extend your contract with two years, that's fair, the same kind of deals are common in Europe as well, but that only leads to perpetual contracts if you absolutely have to switch phones more often than every two years, right? So by being less tech-horny and waiting until your contract has expired, you will be free to switch provider freely, right?

And what's stopping people from always buying the phones full-price and refusing to bind their contracts? Are the talk and data-rates suddenly that much higher? Are people not valuing the freedom to switch more than saving a few percent on the rates?

Why are the US phone consumers consistently making the choice to bind themselves to a provider?

"What if I buy the phone full-price?" I ask. "Do I pay the same rates, even though I’m not getting a discount for the phone?"

Yes. Same rates, even though I’m no longer amortizing a phone.

There doesn't seem to be much to gain by owning a phone outright if the monthly rates are identical. At the end of your contract, when your phone is paid off, if you don't get cheaper rates by continuing to use it, why not upgrade?

But upgrading your phone and getting another contract just means the same thing will happen 2 years later.

The only thing that can break that cycle is a carrier that offers decent rates independent of a hardware purchase. This kind of carrier doesn't seem to exist in the US.

The only thing that can break that cycle is a carrier that offers decent rates independent of a hardware purchase. This kind of carrier doesn't seem to exist in the US.

T-Mobile charges $20/month less for their "Even More Plus" contract-free plans. That makes it a better deal to buy the unsubsidized Nexus One for $350 more, because you can save $480 over the next 2 years with the same plan as the subsidized phone. And you won't have to deal with ETFs if you need to cancel.

If every year you break your phone and extend your contract by two years, it is effectively perpetual. I don't know how often this happens in reality, though.

And what's stopping people from always buying the phones full-price and refusing to bind their contracts?

You can't buy a full-priced phone in any US store, and you have to go looking for them on the Internet. And if you do buy an unsubsidized phone, your service plan won't be any cheaper (except, very recently, T-Mobile).

"You can't buy a full-priced phone in any US store"

Actually, I always buy full-priced phones in US stores. In reverse chronological order:

- Motorola Droid purchased in a Verizon store for $579 - G1 purchased in a T-Mobile store for $499 - HTC Shadow purchased in a T-Mobile store for $449 - Sidekick (forget which one) purchased in a T-Mobile store for about $500

Every carrier lets you buy an unsubsidized phone. It's really not hard. It's just that Americans don't do it, for some reason.

Mobile phone insurance is really common in the UK. Most networks try to up-sell you their insurance, and many bank accounts even include it in a bundle of extras.

That takes care of the broken phone problem.

I know a guy who breaks his phone more often than that. But I don't feel much sympathy. If you can't keep your phone in one piece, it's your own fault and your own problem. Carelessness costs money.

I have a pay-as-you-go and a Nexus One in the UK. I pay £5 pounds for 30 days of unmetered 3G.

If you are eligible to cancel an existing T-Mobile UK contract they can put you on a 4gbp a month 3gb soft-cap data only contract.

(I think the PAYG offer is soft-capped at 1gb, and contract rates are better for the occasional call/SMS.)

This is a great deal for N1 customers if you spend most of the day in WiFi coverage, as there are VoIP clients for Skype and Truphone on Android.

Who is this with?

T-Mobile (they have a 3G "booster" - just text them to get the offer)

I bailed out of the cellphone market after my last contract expired. I'm on Skype Out ($3/mo) + Google Voice (incoming calls go to voicemail and I call them back) + iPod Touch until a compelling reason to enter the market again shows up. Ideally, I'll just get a better iPod Touch and continue to rely on "good enough" WiFi coverage in my area (University WiFi + whatever I can pick up from restuarants/bars while I'm out). I would like to be connected to the phone network 24/7, but it's not worth a 10x increase in price.

That's a cool workaround, but is an exta $27/month actually unjustified? How much time is lost when people are trying to contact you, and can't, or vice versa?

During my typical day, 0 people attempt to contact me by phone, and I spend almost all the time bathed in wireless connectivity. I am out of touch for a total of 40 minutes when I am walking to or from work, and perhaps another half hour when I am off campus for dinner.

I did have an incident very recently when I traveled to a part of campus I don't normally frequent and couldn't find an open access point so that I could request entry to the building. I lost at most half an hour finding an access point nearby, and in the future I can walk directly to the AP if the need arises, so it was a one-time cost.

There is also significant one-time savings from an iPod vs. a smartphone, to the tune of $200-$300.

I do the same with a free 415 (San Francisco) phone from sipgate.com (redirected from google voice to have free sms & calls) and an asterisk box. I use a sip client from my iphone only when I am on wifi (which is fairly easy in this city). I use voipcheap to call internationally (10 Euros last me for close to six months, which is the only cost of the system.

Can you get pay as you go sim cards in the US? They're pretty common here in Italy and are a decent way of not getting too deeply involved with the carriers.

We have pay-as-you-go in the US, but not in the same way as it is in Europe and Asia. Here, convenience stores don't sell loose SIM cards that you can simply pop into your own phone and add whatever value you'd like.

The US carriers seem to market PAYG plans toward low-income customers who (in the carriers' eyes) would not be able to pay for monthly post-paid service plans. Thus they bundle the plans with cheap feature-low phones.

The carriers also don't allow smartphones to be activated on PAYG plans, instead requiring you to buy into an expensive (and profitable, for the carrier) data package.

I have a TMobile PAYG. You can get the SIM from TMobile for $7 (from the store). It costs ~$0.10 / minute to talk (if you buy credit in $50 chunks). You can top-up directly from the phone with a credit/debit card, or on the web, or using a top-up card from a TMobile store - it's really easy, especially doing it from the phone. Personally, I don't give a hoot that they are marketed towards low income customers.

The thing that totally sucks in the US market is the lack of PAYG data plans, or for that matter the price of contract plans for data only. They 3x the price of Europe.

"The carriers also don't allow smartphones to be activated on PAYG plans, instead requiring you to buy into an expensive (and profitable, for the carrier) data package."

This is crazy.

Yes, but pay-as-you-go/pre-paid is usually looked upon as second rate, or only for those who don't qualify for post-paid plans.

Plus, it's a little different that Europe. When I've been overseas in various European contries, they get free incoming calls. My wife would call from the States using Skype for a couple cents a minute and it wouldn't cost me a dime. Here in the US, it's an awkward system. You pay for all your minutes[1] and most the large carriers (Verizon, AT&T, etc) even charge daily access fees, up to $1/day whether you use the phone or not[2].

[1] Unless you get one of those hybrid plans, where you are pre-paid/off contract, but you pay for a certain number of minutes per month. [2] All the carriers differ, some only charge on the days you use the phone. T-mobile seems to be the best "large" operator for pre-paid service in the US, though there are decent regional MVNOs with good deals.

Americans complain just too much about their mobile carriers. You guys need to come to peace with the fact that you are below East Asia and Western Europe in mobile services and internet speeds.

You are still better positioned than 80% of the world, which includes Latin America, Africa, West Asia, Middle East and some other countries. You just can't have everything. sigh

"Americans complain just too much about their mobile carriers."

So the best way to improve things is to be quiet and accept it? What are you saying?

can too

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