Don’t Call Yourself a Developer If You Don’t Code
devwp.eu
devwp.eu
Edit: I code, but I honestly couldn't care less what someone else calls themselves. If I'm interviewing them, they'd have to prove their abilities in the relevant code right then.
If we're just having a conversation, most disciplines are different enough that you have to explain many things from the bottom up anyway.
Backend developers lead entirely different lives from frontend developers, and both lead entirely different lives from low level developers. Game developers or data science devs similarly work nothing like anyone else. So why does it matter that someone calls themselves a Wordpress Developer?
Hopefully corporate attitudes toward work categories changes in the future. It only leads to inefficiency and finding a reason for superiority.
It is unfortunate but titles do matter, and they matter also when you apply to future jobs to pass the HR filter.
No they don't. Companies align positions to industry standard rates, not job titles. One place will call you programmer level 3, some other place will call you Senior developer but if they have the same responsibility, they will be aligned in pay.
Where I am doesn't use the title 'Developer' or 'Programmer. Do you think that means they have no idea how to gauge people coming in or other areas of the industry that do use those titles?
Words have meaning. For people who can discern the differences between these titles - probably most visitors to HN - these distinctions seem silly and almost trivial at times because we think "of course those are different!"
But 99.9%+ of the world is not like us.
They don't know the difference between "web developer" and "WordPress developer" or which framework to use. They don't even know there are lots of frameworks, let alone which use which languages.
This is why when you visit family for the holidays, you constantly hear "oh, you work with computers.. can you see what's wrong with my computer?"
In my opinion, the correct answer to that is, "Yes, for a fee.", and has nothing to do with the overloading of terms, but everything to do with the undervaluation of tech-related labor. I am perfectly capable of fixing your computer, I just don't want to waste my leisure time doing it for free.
Next time you get this, tell the family (especially if they are distant family) – "If your relative was a doctor, would you ask them to give you a quick once-over physical every time they came over? Or if your accountant brother-in-law comes along, do you ask them to glance over your tax forms for free? No? Then stop asking me to look at your computer."
It's also to do with the large gap between consumer-level knowledge and professional knowledge, and the fact that amateurs enthusiastically fill that gap for free, and often competently. Often, "fix my computer" equates to "uninstall this bloatware" and that's non-trivial but simple enough for Gary the precocious 8 year old grandchild to do for kicks.
That there's a world of difference between Gary and real tech-related labour is entirely opaque to someone who thinks Gary knows everything about computers.
Based on your need as an interviewer/organization, you may choose to accept someone who shows passion but less refined skill with a learning opportunity, or you may require someone at a high skill level ready to go on day one.
To me, this is the interviewer's responsibility, to know their requirement and make it clear to candidates.
All I can say is, personally, my own professional ethics require me to try to know my own limits and abilities and present those honestly. So, for example, if a client came to me with a technical need, and I felt that I wanted to fulfill it, but it was reasonably out of my wheelhouse, I would either turn down or direct that client to the best alternative I could think of, if I could not provide it.
I suppose, ethics training is a part of professional development in more rigid occupations, maybe if ours was formalized more, this would be more prevalent.
1) You receive hundreds of spam applications even if you mention explicitly code-related stuff - like GitHub/Bitbucket repo, years of programming experience, know-how in TDD, we sometimes experiment with continuous integration experience or others. The wave comes as long as you mention WordPress.
2) Other than the spam applications and standard "bots", many people simply don't know what's included in "developer" or what real "developers" do. Even if they do want to learn and get better, they don't know the limits and can't aim higher than they are.
I always feel like the authors of posts like these suffer from a terrible lack of confidence.
The term developer is so broad, so overloaded, and will only keep getting more overloaded as the tech industry continues to expand.
If I meet someone at a party and they say they're a developer, even as a developer myself I have no idea what that really means, and I have to ask more questions and probably drill down for at least a couple more minutes before I have the slightest clue what their actual specialty and interests are, let alone what they do or are capable of doing day to day.
In such a specialised world, there's not really much sense in reserving any particular word for any particular category of job or skill, because to do so would be so high level as to be almost useless anyway. High level titles in this world are completely, utterly meaningless because people can and do use them liberally. We're in a place now where it's necessary to have a fairly involved discussion with someone to figure out what their real job and skillset actually are, whereas maybe 50 or more years ago, that perhaps wasn't so much the case. That's a very good thing and we should embrace it and not worry about broad definitions being 'misused'.
Put it this way, if I was being interviewed by somebody who wanted a custom web app building, and they genuinely confused someone advertising themselves as a WordPress developer with a full stack web developer, to an extent that it caused me not to be hired, I think that would ultimately be a positive thing as I'd almost certainly not want to work on that project anyway! There is no danger of the market for custom software becoming confused with the market for WordPress sites, and if there is an overlap, you don't, as a 'real developer' (air quotes very much emphasised) really want to be there anyway, right?
I'd understand the distinction, as would most of my colleagues.
Tim Berners-Lee
Web DeveloperTim Berners-Lee, Web Developer
David Shing, AOL Digital Prophet
https://mobile.twitter.com/ElSatanico/status/514340801468706...
And 'interview' is not a great answer because the signal to noise ratio is so low.
It's like calling yourself a doctor after watching Grey's Anatomy and House, while the majority of the people study for 10 years and do real work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocnliT7iHtI
You can also script photoshop, so if you are actually "developing" for photoshop then I would say yes although that would be certainly an unconventional way to join the trade.
I guess as a technical community, there are at least two forces at work here: 1) The community wants to be as inclusive as possible - get as many people to code as possible, because it is good for everyone to be able to contribute, even if it is using a higher-level tool/abstraction that does much of what we would do writing code by hand manually; and/or 2) The community wants to distinguish itself clearly based on skill-level at some level of core competency or abstraction.
Like a former salesperson at a startup with a few months of fumbling around with jquery documentation who calls himself an "engineer."
Still, let's find a solution as a community. How do we make it easier for people to enter the profession and leave the barrier for entry low while also making it easier for those in the profession to prove their skill-level and commitment to a specific track of the craft?
1) A public list of recognized job titles (think of an employment bureau catalog or else) that defines the job description by an authority. At least a reference that most would pay attention to.
2) A unified training program for each branch (or developers in question) outlining the required skills or targets for developers
3) A WordPress.org profile that showcases the work in a better manner - think of a GitHub/LinkedIn version in the WordPress context
I also wouldn't necessarily vouch for a licensing program (probably commercial/financial interests), but some standardization and guidelines could help immensely and solve various problems for employers, clients, expert and beginner developers, site builders, even users.
I know we have plenty of professional certifications, but I don't know of one as general as this which exists yet and has any true merit. I think the IEEE was working on something like this.
To me what it feels like you're saying is - when you are truly an "expert", it is more likely that you can identify/recognize other "experts" - or even people with that potential.
When I look at my own skills, I try to rate myself honestly on the following scale with regards to some particular skill: expert, professional or amateur.
Expert is a guru-level understanding. If I say that I am an expert, I am saying I think I am as good as the top x% (where x is maybe 1-10) in a particular skill. For me, I pretty much never rate myself as this in any skill!
Professional is practiced, practical, hands-on real world skill. You've honed this skill, you've been formally trained, you've employed this skill successfully in a repeated, demonstrated way.
Amateur is a hobby, done it a few times, do it for fun or would like to do it/get better at it level of experience.
I observed that in traditional skilled tradesmanship, we have the apprentice, who progresses to the journeyman, who progresses to the master craftsman. These are the same levels of what I mean by amateur, professional and expert.
I don't know why our industry seems to reject some of these concepts from skilled trades in terms of organizing into better/stronger professional trade organizations and certifications.
Actually, the way we often talk about coding as a "craft", it's almost like we would feel a lot better with a formal organization and such a career progression/structure in place.
We have our 1%'ers in the software community, our gurus/experts/master craftsman. I often think of these as the core contributing past and current "fathers" and "mothers" of our industry, people ranging anywhere from Ada Lovelace to Vint Cerf. Reality is, those core thinkers are probably where many of us learn from anyway - that and "hacking/tinkering" which is what many of us do and can still lead to progress too.
To me it's all connected, but something about our community always holds us back... maybe there it is the element of not wanting to be forced into structure either. After all, the "hacker" ethos is also a source of our strength, and part of the art.
And as someone said its more about who you know not what you know.
You have to send the message, and be clear about it.
Developers have responsibilities. Serious obligations that can cause harm when not met properly.
You don't want to hire someone, and plunge them into the deep end, get them into a situation where they're in over their heads, and then have it end in tears, because you were uncomfortable about hurting someone's feelings up front.
Sending the message might help dissuade some people from misrepresenting, but those who choose to misrepresent may likely do so regardless.
If they could actually do this, yes it would. But they can't actually build something that a developer would build with code. If someone can't code at all, they can use WordPress to build a very small subset of what a developer can build with code.
A person who spend 30 seconds setting up a blog on tumblr is able to build something that a developer would build with code, but again it's just a small subset.
Now if that subset is all you need then it's fine to hire WordPress admin instead of a developer. But the term "developer" has a current meaning, and that meaning is analogous to "programmer".
That being said, language changes, and developer could become another meaningless job title like engineer (in some countries), and people will have to use another term for someone who can code.
There are ways to prevent this, in some jurisdictions they limit the use of titles like Engineer.
Not too long ago, an off the shelf solution didn't exist for anything, so you had to hire someone to build it from scratch.
By that definition, almost anyone should be called a "developer".
20 years ago, you needed to be a developer to set up a small homepage. Now my grandma can do that with Facebook, but I'm not going to call her a "developer" just because she's doing something that used to require one.
"Don't call yourself developer if you know only one programming language"
"Don't call yourself developer if you don't know (put any algorithm here)"
"Don't call yourself developer if you don't (have this one particualr skill that I have)"
Nothing changed.
In the US we mostly haven't done this, so you end up with all kinds of ridiculous job titles with engineer added on. This is probably exactly what will happen with the term developer, and we'll have to move on to using something else.
You can't call yourself a "professional engineer" unless you are one but if you have a CS degree you can actually become a "professional software engineer" if you go through the process, pass all the tests and meet all the requirements.
"Don't call yourself developer if you've never built and sold a house".
Why do I laugh? Welcome to the world of "guitarists." Sure, some people have spent 1-3 years learning the instrument, as a general concept, and they can play the open chords, the barre chords, and maybe even know 10+ cover songs. Great! They can play guitar, but are they a guitarist?
Not really, because these same people don't really know how things work "under the hood" when it comes to the instrument. There's a laundry list of techniques, genres, ancillary skills and more which in layman's terms equates to a genuine "guitarist." It's a very broad label that can be used appropriately, or, like the article says, be employed by over-confident amateurs.
There's nothing wrong with being a "guitar player" and having fun with the instrument, and if those guys and gals want to join a cover band or do Open Mic night performances to improve their craft, awesome. Enjoy it. In my experience though, "guitar player" folks quickly check their ego when a tried and true "guitarist" starts playing in front of a crowd. There's usually a communal appreciation, in that a guitarist won't talk down to guitar players because there's a shared love of the instrument, of the purpose, and an appreciation for a mutual desire to make music...and every once and a while, there's a heckler or arrogant ass who can't stand the ego check.
That's why in guitar-land we have "head cutting" - the one vs. one, get up on stage, "put up or shut up" mentality for bragging rights. Some people who inappropriately call themselves developers should be easy to call out in this fashion. Those who deserve the term will treat it with respect, and act accordingly.
YMMV!
I ended-up offering higher prices for custom solutions (that took me more and more time) finally it reached the point where the highest price I could ask for (as a 20y/o student) wasn't worth the time invested in each project, and I quit freelancing.
If you use Wordpress to find clients, it's tough to find good paying work. But if you find clients elsewhere, then you can use Wordpress as a part of your overall solution and save time.
And I don't see a reason to switch to a more elitist community just to avoid the ones who've intruded or don't know better due to the lack of educational resources and standards.
I've never used WordPress, but to my knowledge this is just a tool that reduces the amount of manual coding involved in creating a website. To me this seems similar to the way Python reduces the amount of C you have to write, which reduces the amount of assembly you have to write, and so on to the machine code. Perhaps WordPress "development" is considered easier, but even if you equate the terms "developer" and "software developer," it doesn't seem like an unambiguously inaccurate or misleading description of the activity.
I'm also obliquely objecting to the lionization of software developers in general, as much software development is glorified plumbing, while some of it is among the most intellectually challenging work available. If one is going to take pride in one's job, I tend to think it should result from the work itself, rather than the job title.
That would be more than sufficient - creating a new job group for people with similar skills and service offerings, allowing SMB clients to reach out to those and large businesses connecting with developers.
The last paragraph was pretty weak. The bald assertion that "Installing a website itself is of no service to most clients who can accomplish the same in a couple of hours with a cheap host providing a detailed guide on their website", must be false. At least two hours of technically knowledgeable work is definitely a worthwhile service, and deserves adequate remuneration. The next sentence, about "providing real value" doesn't stand up, then, because such WordPress Devs are providing real value.
There's no reason why success should require taking on custom projects for larger businesses, when there is an ample market of small businesses and new businesses that are well-served with just WordPress and plugins.
Trying to claim a specific title for yourself, while telling other people that they have no right to claim that same title, is purely an exercise in your own ego.
Because that list sounded more like negative consequences to the author's business, not an entire industry. If he were truly succeeding as a services company focused on the Wordpress niche, those would be pain points toward which he would focus his own marketing, and they would be business opportunities, not global problems with people's titles.
We do have a decent business strategy that seems to be working and have some high-end clients (including banks, automotive manufacturers, SaaS providers), but our growth is somewhat constrained due to the limited opportunities thanks to the bad rap of the platform, hiring is incredibly challenging, selling to enterprises has an added overhead and so on. And yes, we can switch to another platform, but I do believe that a few actionable steps (like settings standards and simply separating site builders from developers) can solve many of those problems.
"You can't call yourself an engineer when you don't have a degree from an engineering school", "You are not an architect if you didn't study architecture in college" blah blah blah
Can we please put these debates to rest? it's tiring already. Yeah, recruitment is frustrating since everyone likes to over inflate or lie outright about the accomplishments and qualifications on their CV but it's been established a long time ago that this is part of the process and the onus is on the interviewer or recruiter to screen the applicants and tell who's the real deal and who's not, it's part of their job after all.
All professions that don't have gatekeepers, certification, and strong professional associations suffer from declining salaries.
The difference between good and bad web dev is the difference between a site that scales, is maintainable, secure, and reliable, and looks nice, as opposed to a WP site that does none of the above. (But looks nice - maybe.)
I've talked to "designers" who say things like "I don't know if we can do that - I leave all those details to my technical people."
It turns out all the "designer" did was pick a font and a colour scheme and draw a few wireframes. And they got the job because they knew someone on the board.
Meanwhile the "technical people" have done all the real work - and could probably make a site look just as good if they'd been asked to.
That comment is also for everyone who mentioned that the post reflects only to the state of a single business instead of an entire community, ecosystem and the business of web development as a whole.
If you've never written code, why call yourself a developer? I know language changes over time, but that's just being purposefully misleading.
Just to clearify: There are totally legit developers who use Wordpress and/or PHP, but they usually would not put that in their title.
However, I'm having trouble understanding on what's it doing on top of HN. Are there actually a lot of people who have regular encounters with WP developers, or WP at all, aside from may be people from the WP company itself, that read or comment here? I had such a good impression of a crowd here that I assumed that working with WP requires far less programming skills that people here usually have.
Don't call yourself an architect if you don't plan, design, and construct buildings.
That would be absurd of me to expect, clearly the meaning of the word "architect" has different meaning in different contexts, to different people, and in different fields of work. "Engineer" is another good example. If you have specific definitions, use them in your job postings so people know what you mean, but don't cry foul when people use a term in an accepted but different manner than you prefer.
Even if my day-to-day follows the "software architect" definition, I would gladly replace it with something closer to the technical field if it wasn't polluted by the majority of people mislabeling themselves. Which is more or less the point of the post.
Some of it comes from various state / federal labor law and relates to compensation. Someone who, lets face it, is the online equivalent of a sign spinner, has certain legal obligations WRT overtime compensation that isn't an issue for a "professional engineer" or "software developer"... A lot of overtime pay is saved by calling data entry clerks "developers".
That's what most people hear when I try and use my title.
I simply tell people I program computers. Why? Because its what I do.
Does it matter to me that I'm not telling them that I design/architect and develop solutions? Nope. I don't care. Because, to me, that all boils down to "I program computers".
If you want a word for people who write computer programs, there's a word that means specifically that: "programmer."
Not only WP devs are not devs, they do not truly understand/care about real client needs. In than sense, the are not solution architects/designer either.
No, but I would expect a Word Press Developer to know PHP, HTML and CSS.