Countries That Don't Exist | Hacker News Reader

Countries That Don't Exist

bbc.com

123 pointschewxy41 comments

I thought this was going to be about the excellent BBC series "Places That Don't Exist"[1] that covers Somaliland, Transnistria, Taiwan, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Nagorno-Karabakh.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_That_Don%27t_Exist

Simon Reeve himself has posted it on youtube, so I guess it's OK to link it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRET1fHLWdE

Was the video working when you posted this? I just see "This video is unavailable." (in the US though--but it doesn't say it's blocked in my country?)

Surprisingly it's available from Germany.

It is working in UK. I wonder if he set it to EU-only then.

Works fine for me in South Korea.

It does not work for me (US).

I know way too much about this subject, some favorites are...

Åland Islands, an autonomous region between Sweden and Finland which belongs to Finland but is Swedish-speaking. What makes it notable is that it's a demilitarized zone. Something that is more usual for conflict zones like in Korea or far away places like Antarctica. It also holds an VAT exception from the EU which makes it possible to buy tax-free goods on the ferries between Sweden and Finland. TLD: .ax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land_Islands

San Marino, a microstate in Italy claiming to be the oldest sovereign state in the world that for some reason enjoy the best visa rules to China of any country. Presumably because China will generally give you the same visa rules as you give its citizens. Like many other microstates it's hard to become a neutralized citizen, requiring having lived there for at least 30 years. TLD: .sm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_microstates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_China

Bir Tawil, an area between Egypt and Sudan that is, because of disagreement over borders, claimed by neither of them. Supposedly the most non-remote unclaimed territory on earth. TLD: not yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil

I just have to ask, given your name, are you from Gozo? I visited once about 7-8 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it!

No, few people are. But I've been there and, although probably not Gozo, I'm looking to move to Malta in a few months.

San Marino is in the UN though, so it's a proper country country.

Don't forget frozen conflicts.

South Ossetia, Nagoro-Karabakh, Donetsk People's Republic, Luhansk People's Republic, Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic, Abkhazia... these are just the post-Soviet ones.

Then there's the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, of course. Legitimate or not, it's very much a state.

The funny thing about depictions of ISIS' areas of operation and control on maps provided by, say... The New York Times, is that they're always shown as wispy red tendrils curling along main highways and around towns, and that level of spin is a bit silly.

The point being that there's some sort of psychological effort being made, to assert that while all the main roads are under control, and all the main roads certainly surround much larger areas, ISIS only controls the first 25 feet outside of the roadway, as if it's bound by some sort of municipal Iraqi or Syrian zoning ordinance.

ISIS doesn't have an Air Force; they can't really defend the desert they don't occupy event if it's terrorist with little strategic importance.

Had the maps shown ISIS with more territory someone might suggest a psychoigical effort was being made to scare people into supporting a more direct conflict with ISIS.

I do think it would be interesting to know how journalists draw these maps though.

I dunno. Technicalities of vertical envelopment aside, once something is surrounded it's usually considered ceded to those who have it surrounded.

An inability to defend, contrasted with an unlikely target to be attacked, leaves you with ease of access as a defining quality of possession.

Strange they mentioned the Republic of Lakotah while not mentioning the Navaho Nation[1] as the latter is an actually functional government, though the fact that it doesn't try to claim statehood doesn't help, the fact that it actually operates does give it a leg up on Lakotah.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Nation

Taiwan is probably the largest "invisible" country. 23 million people Army personnel : 290,000 Tanks: 2,005 Total aircraft: 804 Submarines: 4

Greetings from Taiwan. :) It's pretty much a "let's pretend we cannot see you" sort of diplomacy one the side of most countries (including my birth country in Europe) - most just set up a "trade office" and conduct things almost like an embassy.

Living here for ~7 years and thinking quite a bit about it, I believe statehood defined by membership of "club" that is the United Nations is quite laughable. There was no such thing a hundred years ago, and while the UN does bring a lot of good things to the table, this misrepresentation of reality (for obvious powerplay reasons) is just awful...

I lived in Taipei for a year.

I loved it, but I could never find a suitable startup to work with. So ended up moving back to HK.

I'll be back some time. But I fear for Taiwan's future.

I'm curious, why do you fear for its future?

Some change this week:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Taiwan&tbm=nws

(I don't pretend to understand how meaningful it is, but it was the first such meeting)

Many people (including my friends here in Taiwan) believe it's an attempt by the PRC to influence the elections which are being held here in about two months. The KMT (Ma's party) are going to get annihilated according to polls.

The political situation here is interesting, to say the least. There's also this funny video about the meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEn3xqrMasc

It will be dangerous if Taiwan attempts to put its plan of independence into action, even though in reality it effectively has one.

Once CCP still controls mainland China, Taiwan has no chance to get this working without military response from the other side. It is for the best interests of both sides to just keep things as it is.

I don't think there's any kind of formal independence plan. KMT is pro-"eventual reunification". DPP is pro-"eventual independence" but could never campaign with that or PRC would get very angry.

I think it's well past the point for a peaceful reunification. Only a very small subset of the population here identifies as "Chinese-only" and an even smaller subset want to reunify. Young Taiwanese increasingly identify as "Taiwanese-only" and want eventual independence.

I have no skin in this fight (other than that I like Taiwan and dislike the actions of the Chinese government), but it's interesting to watch as an observer. I think things will remain as they are for a long time.

>Many people (including my friends here in Taiwan) believe it's an attempt by the PRC to influence the elections which are being held here in about two months.

How would that even work?

1. Most people in Taiwan hate the Community Party of China

2. KMT and CPC arrange a meeting to show that they're frenemies with each other

3. KMT loses in the election, which hurts both the KMT and the CPC

So it's conspiracy to between the CPC and KMT to sabotage themselves?

I honestly have no idea. There were some thoughts in English by a Taiwanese I found here: https://frozengarlic.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/quick-reaction...

Ma promised when he was re-elected that he would never meet with the PRC as head of state. It's also likely this meeting is unconstitutional (Chinese text): https://tw.mobi.yahoo.com/home/%E7%AB%8B%E6%B3%95%E9%99%A2%E...

Interesting that Western Sahara isn't mentioned. It actually isn't a country, but it looks like one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara

The micro nation Sealand is brilliant.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150414-i-rule-my-own-ocean...

Hasn't been legitimate for a long time, though. England's maritime boundaries were extended a while back. If they try something, English police will descend.

And here's a new one, on the west bank of the Danube between Croatia and Serbia.

https://liberland.org

Would Republika Srpska be considered one?

The amateur radio organization, American Radio Relay League (ARRL), has its own definition of a country. I can't locate the exact definition on the web but in general it is stated that each discrete geographical or political entity is considered to be a country. Many of these 'countries' lack even population but are considered so for awards purposes. Hams schedule trips to put these countries on the air.

Here's the ARRL list:

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/dxcclist.txt

The Travelers Century Club maintains a similar list. Feel free to compare and contrast:

http://travelerscenturyclub.org/countries-and-territories/

The paragraph about Christiania is bullshit.

It is not legal to smoke or sell cannabis there, and the police have done several raids over the years. Most people don't even consider it a country, but more like a borough for the hippies. Copenhagen is mainly social democrat, with some areas even more left wing, and clearing out Christiania would be a very unpopular idea, because a large majority of their voters support Christiania.

I'm not sure about how large (or how solid) the majority that support Christiania is, most Copenhageners seem divided on the issue.

Cannabis is de facto legal in Christiania: people buy, sell and use it openly there without repercussions. This seems to be widely regarded as a good thing.

The area of the midwest referenced in this article is a fascinating area. It's essentially undiscussed and unthought about in mainstream American thought. But it's so interesting to drive around out there, so much land, few people, and when you do come to towns, everyone in them is Native American. It's just different than anything I've experienced on the east or west coasts.

Reminds me of an email I once wrote that started out talking about Georgia as an imaginary place. Countries, states, counties, cities -- these all have to be dreamed up first in a way that, say, a continent or river does not need to be dreamed up. A continent exists whether we define it and name it or not. Not so with a politically defined "place."

After playing Eu4 for a while, I'm kinda disapointed the knights aren't mentionned.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Ma...

It's sad that they don't talk about Uzupis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C5%BEupis

A nice little artsy pseudo-country in Vilnius, Lithuania.

Libya and Iraq can effectively added to this list.

Yes. And many African and Middle East countries are inventions to various degrees of the colonial powers. See Nigeria, Transjordania ...

Having a state not based on a geographical boundary would be interesting for democracy. You could join such a state based on your political alignment, and pay/not pay your taxes to them. It would be like working abroad.

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