Comment by patio11 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by patio11 | Hacker News Reader

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A "black company" is one which abuses employees in such a manner as to shock the conscience of a Japanese salaryman.

Normal company: Work Monday to Saturday, Sunday off. Black company: two Sundays a month off... but you have to work on them anyhow

Normal company: 70 hour workweek involving 20+ hours of paid overtime. Black company: the overtime is uncompensated ("service" overtime)/

Normal company: underperforming employees are ostracized or criticized. Black company: underperforming employees, or performing employees, are subjected to "power harassment" or physical violence.

Incidentally, salaryman loyalty counsels that one's own company is never a black company... I mean sure, there might be some disreputable firms in Tokyo, but we are just going through a crunch period, Tanaka-buchou is well-known to be demanding, that project is over budget so sacrifices must be made, etc.

Many Japanese salarymen of my acquaintance would identify the core underlying sin as "failing to uphold the company's end of the bargain all of us know we're making" and would say "It's mostly a thing at tiny SMBs who don't have the economic resources to consistently treat employees correctly."

If it isn't completely obvious, I have strong reservations about salarymanhood as a system and how the discourse of "black companies" is designed to and functions as insulation for that system.

Tangentially, I keep seeing those figures, but can't figure out how it happens. I mean, how is there enough work for every single corporate drone to work 70 hours per week, plus an additional 20? What the heck is it that all those people do?

Not trying to be derisive, I'm just genuinely curious if it's actual work, or if they clock in, spend 5 hours playing Fate/GO and 5 hours adjusting the spreadsheet a bit.

It's not highest-and-best-productive work -- if you actually try that, like a stupid young American, you will quickly be taken aside and told to stop making your teammates look bad. You'll spend lots of time on meetings, meetings to schedule meetings, corporate rituals, meetings to discuss improvement of corporate rituals, reading the newspaper, and doing a solid 6 hours of work in a 14 hour day.

Fewer hours at work and no dress code are never on the table, I suppose... On another tangent, is there no japanese analogue to Scott Adams's Dilbert? People must be self-aware of the system, right?

My outside impression of Japan and Taiwan is that they're horrific places for corporate work across the board.

Is this a stereotype fuelled by the black companies, or is it largely accurate?

I have no personal experience of working in Taiwan, but anecdotally, it has a Japan-esque work culture. Full-time employment at a traditionally managed Japanese company -- i.e. being a salaryman -- is, largely, not an experience I would recommend to someone I loved. There exist some startups or e.g. foreign-owned firms which would be far less odious options.

Living in Japan is wonderful. A++ would totally immigrate again. A substantial portion of my present happiness is having created a job which means that I am 99.8% insulated from Japanese megacorps.

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