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Comment by ovi256 | Hacker News Reader

Do you never wonder how other countries do it? US ranks pretty low among developped (and even developping) countries in education.

>This goal is unachievable

I completely disagree with you. It is achieveble, not easily, but neither is it so difficult. Hint: it's completely incongruent with "No Child Left Behind". Leave the important stuff to tehnocrats, not politicians.

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Ranks well at what? Standardized test scores?

Asian countries in general, and I know about Japan in particular, are very very harsh to students. Test scores up, freedom down. If our children don't put up with that kind of thing, maybe that speaks well of us.

What exactly "kind of thing" do you mean?

There is a very, very strong emphasis on rote memorization throughout Asian schools, over things like working in groups.

the essential issue is obedience. obedient children devote their creativity and effort into doing as their parents and teachers want, such as getting good test scores.

one way to try to observe obedience is to look at how harsh conditions people will accept when told to, without complaining and trying to do something about it. everything i know about japanese schools points to a lot more pressure on students to be studious and that kind of thing, and a lot less complaining about any decisions by authorities.

If it were just Asian countries, I might agree; but the U.S. lags those wild and free Northern European countries in matters like math skills and foreign language training.

According to ESL teachers, it takes seven years for an adult to learn a new language well enough that native speakers will want to talk to you. Although a child can probably acquire a language in less time than that, it is also true that the child will lose the language if he or she stops using it before adulthood. I have seen many arguments for the value of learning a second language, but they all strike me as flimsy. Please tell me why a student who already knows English or even Spanish or Mandarin should invest thousands of hours learning a second language when there are more than enough sciences and practical arts with much clearer educational value to last anyone a lifetime of learning.

Well, it is easy. Mandarin is a quite useful language if you are living in China, but it wouldn't help you if you are in Iceland.

Also, I've heard (don't remember where...) that not all languages are equal when conveying an idea: for example eskimos have a lot of words for snow and white. Some concepts would be very hard to express in any other language.

My point of view is clearly viased: I speak Catalan and Spanish (mother tongues) and I'm more or less fluent in English (hoping to take the CPE this june).

Well, if you don't place much weight on foreign language, that's okay -- my point still stands. U.S. performance in math and science is comparatively disappointing.

I can't really agree with your position on language learning, but I'm a little biased. I've studied Ancient Greek, German, Chinese and Middle English.

Do you really want to bring up the importance of foreign language training in schools?

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