State Department Makes Statement on Google Operations in China
state.gov
state.gov
- Apparently Google has uncovered a chinese attempt to infiltrate a number of American companies[1]. The fact that this is being uncovered by Google and not the government is very interesting. And potentially very embarrasing for the state.
- America hasn't engaged China in relation to human rights, probably due to global politics which tends to tie you up in consensus, conventions and diplomacy. Google has done so in a very clear and public way.
- The state department is taking Googles lead. Hilary Clinton is playing catch-up. She even says so in the statement: "We have been briefed by Google"
This indicates an enormous shift in power.
[1] - The American government might have been aware of this or even uncovered it themselves, which I personally doubt.
While our Gov't isn't very good at some things, I can guarantee that they were aware of what was going on. There have been many well-publicized instances over the past 10 years where the Govt' has uncovered intrusions into commercial companies.
As for your second point, I totally agree. There might be a good chance the government knew, I'm no security expert so I'll refrain from taking a stance. That's why I added the footnote :-)
Nothing new here. Big business has been taking a leadership role in international politics for decades. See: WTO.
How? Once Google moves out of China what can the Chinese government do to them?
even the Nexus One is made in Taiwan
How long do you think Taiwan is going to last as an autonomous entity, now that it can no longer rely on the US for military support, because the US is in hock to the PRC?The reintegration of Taiwan will happen through a political arrangement between the CPC and the KMT, not through war.
The PRC owns many pieces of paper. Attacking Taiwan would be an excellent reason to repudiate the value of that paper.
Countries have been pillaging, raping and committing genocide for eons - that means this is how countries are expected to act now?
"Gossip from within google.cn is Shanghai office used as CN gov attack stage in US source code network." - wikileaks: http://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/7689041346
(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1049154)
i.e. (rumors) Google know who was attacked because it was done out of their own office
That is, the required local hires, the mandatory native firm partner, etc, It could be that the rules don't allow enough control over those resources to achieve acceptable risk.
If that's the case, it makes perfect sense that Google would issue a public threat to close the office. Nothing else would carry as much weight and if the current terms are untenable, there's essentially no risk.
If I understand correctly, google find out because they were companies using the google enterprise framework. Google was their IT dept. It doesn't surprise me they uncovered it first.
[citation needed]COINTEL anyone?
I can often tell when somebody has had their servers hacked, and I just watch my own servers.
It is no secret that the US and Chinese economies have a highly symbiotic relationship and are heavily dependent on each other - Americans buy the most Chinese production out of anyone else, while China is the main creditor of the US (just to name two examples).
If the US is willing to make the tradeoff I mentioned before, it should illustrate the gravity of what the Chinese government has done. That seems like a pretty scary scenario to me.
My guess is that the US government will not do anything big to seriously engage China on civil rights. I'm not even sure if I should hope they do or not. Again, this is only speculation, but fascinating.
I wouldn't be so sure that the roles are as clearly defined as it seems at this moment.
Targeted attacks on specific diplomatic, economic, and infrastructure targets from China were, I thought, widely known of for the past few years.
China targeting Tibeten diplomatic traffic: www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-746.pdf
Northrop-Grumman report: http://www.uscc.gov/researchpapers/2009/NorthropGrumman_PRC_...
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GhostNet MI5 reports China targeting UK government in 2007: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7123970.stm
The thing is, Google can make this accusation and be above suspicion. If the US government made tis accusation, it would turn into a PR fight and no one would know who to believe.
The assumption in government (and of security researchers) right now is that every time you send an email, it gets read by 25 or so countries. However, they haven't bothered to tell the general public this yet. My guess is that they are going to use this incident to either start to break this news to the general public, or else push through additional computer security measures. Possibly both.
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=dvov
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----My guess is that people who really, really want to protect what they saying and that they're saying it use nonsense spam as a steganographic medium.
----
Edit: I don't know how effective it really is, but this seems to be the motivation for why spammers at least try this. Many more details here:
A password doesn't even fall under 'free speech', so even in a free country like US one can get slapped with 'obstruction of justice' if one doesn't provide a password. I'll leave it to your imagination to what happens in other, more oppressive countries...
But I guess that large webmail providers can band together and ensure that e-mails between their systems are encrypted (i.e. all messages sent by gmail to other gmail addresses or hotmail addresses are encrypted).
Then users would just use HTTPS to check their mail and everything would be encrypted.
This is not perfect, but it is at least a stopgap.
On the flip side of your statement, I think evil, oppressive regimes hire very smart and talented people.
This has nothing to do with breaking crypto. The breaking is done in an oubliette.
Or, they'll use a TEMPEST attack to read your screen without you even knowing it. Or they'll use a similar attack to read your keystrokes wirelessly.
Or, they'll get you in a room and use a $5 wrench on your face until you tell them what they want to know.
Breaking encryption is far down the list of techniques that are worthwile to oppressive regimes.
Once you've carried out this analysis, you know on who you can apply the more realworld techniques that you suggest.
There were some articles last year (or maybe it was 2008) about textile manufacturing in the US, and how the Chinese were subsidizing them to the point where even if the US workers worked for free, the US plants could not compete on price.
To understand how much manufacturing changed, I recommend reading The Box. The shipping container totally changed everything by reducing shipping costs by about 98%. A lot of cities that used to be manufacturing centers (such as NYC and Detroit) withered, and a lot of cities that used to be shipping centers (such as NYC and London) also shriveled up because they could not support container traffic.
http://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy...
It is a cascading failure.
It will instead be the sheer wearing force of progressive technological advances that make it harder and harder with each passing day for such regimes ultimately to suppress the free flow of information and the spur toward freedom promoted thereby.
With its dramatic action, Google has demonstrated that any given company wielding sufficient power relating to the free flow of information has the capacity to make a big difference in moving to help liberate countries such as China. That company has to show some guts, which Google has done. And it needs to have some core principles, which is really at the heart of being able to act with courage and conviction as Google has done. But none of this would be enough, even if it is backed vocally or sub silentio by the force of the U.S. government, the U.N., and rights advocates. Repressive regimes like China's have gone for decades on their oppressive path in spite of vigorous opposition from the west (remember the long stretch when the U.S. would not even recognize the existence of the Chinese government) and have scarcely changed their worst policies over that time.
The change, then, ultimately has to come from within and it is there that the free flow of information makes all the difference. Knowledge is power, and that is precisely why oppressive regimes always seek to suppress free speech and to control thought through massive propaganda mechanisms.
It is the technological juggernaut that is progressively, albeit slowly, undermining the thought-control historically imposed by the Chinese government upon its citizens, and that government will be fighting a losing battle on this front as it becomes virtually impossible, in an exploding information age, ultimately to choke off the free flow of information so desperately needed by oppressed peoples.
In this sense, Google's action serves as a proxy for the technology forces that are having this salutary effect. But none of this happens in a vacuum. It takes real people to make real and difficult decisions to bring about the change. And it takes courage to stand up to authoritarian forces. Bravo to Google for taking a tremendous step in the right direction. I hope they stick with it to its logical outcome. It will not be easy.
How so? Has China moved yet, in reaction? It seems very unlikely to me that they would, and Google is not even the most popular search engine in China.
As for unstoppable technological progress, there are lots of examples of political regimes keeping their countries in the dark ages.
The only one I can think of that actually worked was Japan's repudiation of the gun, and that was broken open from the outside eventually. The Soviets tried to control communications technology, even requiring copy machines to be licensed, but it didn't work very well.
You can't turn around a couple of years later and sincerely say that you want to make the principle now your paramount reason for a move.
The time for principled stances is when things happen, or when they come to light.
The whole human rights thing is just so much window dressing and PR spin.
Now it looks to me as though they figure the income they make in China isn't worth the continued PR headache, or, alternatively, they decided to leave anyway and they use the occasion to polish up their image.
I'm very cynical when it comes to large companies doing things for the public good, but you could already tell that I guess.
Shell, Yahoo, Microsoft, Google (and many others beside) they all have their skeletons in the cupboard in this respect.
Still, if you apply the cynical view consistently, then Google refusing to do business in China can be seen as Google making a calculation, deciding they can't make enough money in China to justify the headache/bad PR, and claiming the decision is because of human rights issues. Same interpretation, 2 years earlier.
For sure the calculation today is a lot more refined than it was several years ago, and probably the figures in the spreadsheets are smaller than they were back then.
To who are they trying to make a statement? If to "the rest of the world" then your statement makes sense. However, if they're trying to make a statement to the Chinese population it's probably better that google demonstrates their services worth then pulls the plug.
It is clearly intended for consumption by the rest of the world.
For example:
"After a thorough investigation of business opportunities in China, Google has decided not to touch the place with a ten-foot pole."
Or:
"Google on China: F!@# NO!"
Returning you now to your regularly scheduled moral relativism.
ISTM that nationalist elements within China would love to paint Western businesses that they disapprove of as arms of the CIA, and that if the US is too vocal in support of Google, then they give fodder to those nationalists (and risk damaging US commercial interests in China). I assume that the State Department considered this factor and decided that nevertheless, they had to speak up for an open international Internet.
This is an old article but compares the actions against the Barbary Pirates (US Navy used force to ensure Free Trade) with what US could do with Internet 'piracy' - and no thats not copying CDs.
Wow, straight out of a William Gibson novel.
What's amusing is that it was intended to be set a decade or two in the future, but most of the "futuristic" plot twists have already happened.
2) That was the whole point of Accelerando.
That said, I really liked Halting State and Saturn's Children, but not Accelerando as much (it was too crazy for me).
This could have been done from Google offices in China, but why not in other countries?
The pertinent question is "when?". Google reported the attacks began in mid-December. NYT reported at least some against the 34 other companies occurred last week. Drummond said the Chinese government had been briefed before yesterday's statement. I have trouble believing The State Department hasn't been involved until now.
Similar to the recent, "don't internet bank via Windows" warnings, it appears that anyone involved with human rights should shift follow the same advice for all their online correspondence. But that tech/security element seems to be lost because of the geopolitical drama.