Just the Bill | Hacker News Reader

Just the Bill

justthebill.com

55 pointsnickmolnar243 comments

We created this service as a side project with @providentmike in some free cycles we had in our software development company (staging.thirdi.com).

We went from back-of-napkin to Beta in about a month, and are wondering if we have already hit a minimum viable product. We can accept expenses from Blackberries only, but we are working hard on an email submission process which opens up the iPhone/every other smartphone.

Other than that, what would it take to make this something that could satisfy your businesses expensing needs?

I would say: - release the API - make an iphone app

That's a good one. We definitely don't want to be making native clients for every platform out there. It's on the to-do list, I'll see how far up we can push it.

My BlackBerry Storm 9530 v4.7.0.148 is giving me the error "Uncaught exception: java.lang.NullPointerException" when I try to send in a receipt with the app. Also, when I try to submit from the "Add more details" screen, my BB menu is activated and no submission occurs.

EDIT: I do really like the app overall though. You've definitely got me on the hook with your design and copy.

Thanks for the heads up. Is there any chance you'd be able to send over the diagnostic logs. It is an option in the Application Menu in the app, and would help speed along our fix.

Admittedly, we haven't tested it on a Storm yet. We'll get on that.

Thanks for the support. We'll let you know when you can properly use the app.

No problem, I sent the logs now (at least I think so, I got no confirmation). I'll be waiting to hear from you.

One other note- I know you are going for MVP, but don't completely through branding out the window.

Where's the logo? Even if you don't have one, let's at least get the name somewhere above the fold. And it's a good name.

We're working on the logo. It'll be up, well above the fold, soon enough.

Thanks. We like the name too.

I would consider defining the BlackBerry requirement immediately. Yes, I see the image, but why wouldn't I think you're just using that as a default phone image? You're risking high frustration if they don't catch the supported platforms note.

As far MVP, if it works and you can start exploring product/market fit with rapid iterations (add more lean buzzwords here)...then of course!

We've already had a few of those complaints. We will rework the language to make the Blackberry requirement more obvious.

Just a thought - if you provide an interface just after "scanning" the bill where you can easily tap line items to get a total it would make splitting a bill much easier.

You might also provide a way of tapping the number of people who shared the meal to split the bill (quick and painless divide) or an easy way to calculate a tip.

Finally, being able to tag line items then and there could be useful - say you purchase some stuff from the supermarket and a couple of those items are business while the rest are personal.

Looks like a beautifully simple first step. Well done.

Nice homepage. Some screenshots would be very helpful in evaluating the product.

Not sure if you've considered different business models, but mint.com's strategy of offering cost saving alternatives could work well here. Something like "you've spent 500 on office supplies this month.. did you know you could save $300/year with an OfficeMax mastercard? [affiliate link here]"

We've certainly been talking about the idea. I think that this is positioned a little differently from Mint. People are far more willing to pay for business software (especially the kind that cuts down on manual labour) than they are on personal efficiency software.

I think that leaves us some room to charge a reasonable monthly fee for some premium features. That is an easier, and more direct, business model.

The Mint-style stuff might come later if we have a big enough audience.

You ought to add working SSL (certificate is invalid and when I choose to add an account, it doesn't switch to SSL).

That fix is already in the works.

Thanks

I saw a presentation by Expensify once: https://www.expensify.com/

It looked like a very full-featured system that does what "Just the Bill" seems to do and more. It was integrated with various credit card company backends.

This is probably one of the few things I would actually purchase, because it seems like it would make my life much easier.

However, you do need integration. If, for example, you could integrate with mint, you'll be gold.

We've been aiming this for a bit more of a corporate audience than Mint's. We think this works particularly well in situations with multiple employees and a single bookkeeper. Of course, we'd like to make a product that works for individuals too, but we are starting off by focusing on our strengths.

I use XpenseTracker, an iphone app simply because it allows me to shoot a picture of the receipt and build an expense report as I travel. You can compare and tell me.

The site is really clean and well designed. How do you guys differ from http://www.shoeboxed.com?

+1'ing the clean design. Looks great, but I think you should add a couple more pages (unless I'm missing them) to give people more to view before they make that 'sign-up or leave' decision. Even just showing a closer screenshot (I love to see real data rather than a small screenshot - helps me imagine how I might use a service personally) and explaining how it corrects OCRed text, etc.

Might be interesting to try and work in something to find out why people aren't interested in signing up also: don't have a Blackberry, don't understand the benefits, don't need this and just looking around, etc.

For something like this, you might want a "Privacy" link. I also tend to put much more stock in sites with an "About" page -- not sure if that's universal. The black bar along the top is a fine place for these links, and I don't think adding them would detract from the site's usability.

You're right. And as the copywriter for the site, I'm feeling a bit sheepish for not pressing to include that in the 1.0.

If you'd like to find out more about us, you can always go to staging.thirdi.com (our new site is going up soon, we thought we'd point there) or providentsecurity.ca.

A proper 'About' page is in the pipeline.

Looks pretty MVP-ish to me, especially given the comments here so far. Hope you'll share some data on what you've learned and some stories of what you experienced. Was it scary to put up the MVP? In retrospect, are there features you could have cut and still learned the same amount?

Keep your eyes on senses.thirdi.com. We'll be posting all kinds of stories and lessons from this project (and a few other neat projects we are working on right now).

Plenty more lessons to be learned, too, I suspect.

Have you seen http://xpenser.com/ ? Lets you record expenses from email, SMS, Twitter, IM, iPhone, browser search box, voice (call and say it), etc.

They also have a full set of APIs. Maybe you could build on top of their system.

Sigh, I had this idea about a month ago and did about a day's worth of hacking on it. At least, a similar idea. I wanted to generate a report at the end of a month to check my credit card statement against. I'm too lazy to do it by hand, but with a decent app, I'd do it.

Ooooh. I may just finally get around to buying a nice phone. I'm horrible with receipts, and this looks perfect for my needs. JoelMcCracken commented that it would be awesome if you could integrate with mint, but even if you don't, this still is awesome.

I'm curious as to what OCR library you are using? I've had issues getting 100% reads in the past on related projects, and I've love to hear how you deal with image de-skewing and OCR.

We aren't doing OCR right now. We are using your bookkeeper's eyes as the OCR. It is close to 100% effective, if not as space-agey.

Seems like you've hit on a great idea here.

Looks great, I just can't figure out how to actually add any data.

Ah, so it's a BB app which I guess I photograph the receipts with? Also, not digging the password via email thing.

Not sure how it shortens my signup, but interesting point re: the "share" feature. At first glance made me think "oh I hope they're not storing passwords in plaintext".

Don't worry. We aren't storing anything in plaintext. SHA-1 with a 256-bit salt.

Sorry, I was a little confused about the password-via-email comment. No, it doesn't shorten your reg. Only the share. We include the password for easy record-keeping for users. Also, we don't keep anything of value on JTB. It is just receipts. No bank account numbers or CC numbers. Just like a paper receipt.

You're still sending the password I entered back to me in an email in plaintext, even if you're not keeping it.

This is considered horrible practice.

I was excited about your product until I received an email with my password in it.. it just killed my enthusiasm. At some point I'll look back, but for a site that stores financial data...kinda scary.

Awesome, thanks for the clarification.

We like the PW via email to shorten the registration process.

Also, it lets us make the 'Share' button much more powerful. This way, we can have someone share an account with a friend and deliver them a fully functional account with no signup.

Personally it freaks me out that someone can create am account on my behalf. I don't like that. But i'm sure your user experience researh has shown you that I am in the minority, soi guess I just have to deal with it.

All data is added via Blackberry right now. Email soon.

super idea. needs more direction right after you register, remember nobody wants to think about things - thats exactly what you are tapping here.

We definitely have a long way to go in terms of new-user flow. This should be dead simple, and give some positive reinforcement to get people to cross the chasm.

I think once someone uploads 3 receipts to this thing they are going to be hooked, but that is a big jump.

how does the technology work?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com