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Comment by kirk21 | Hacker News Reader

Off topics but the fact that Uber requires you to have the latest version of its app to book rides is ridiculous. Not everyone has the newest smartphone with tons of space to update apps.

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I actually got stuck out at Fort Mason one day during the Launch Conference last spring because of this issue. I used an Uber to get there, but when I went to leave the app required an update and I couldn't get a decent enough connection to download the update near the venue.

They really should let you use the N-1 version at the very least. That should prevent these same day/trip issues.

I have a feeling they probably do.

I hadn't updated in a week or two, just out of laziness to not check for updates everyday. So it's possible I had missed more than one update that caused the issue.

I heard the force-upgrade window is 3 months. To verify just deny updates until the app doesn't let you use the uber app anymore. It might also be necessary fixes pushing up the minimum version.

They should just use a decent website (web-app), in my humble opinion.

They have that: https://m.uber.com/

It perhaps allow you to book 1 ride on an outdated version and warn you its the last one. Then lock account until you've updated so you don't get stranded like that 1 person

Ironically, this sounds like a customer experience that's way worse than anything described in the article. Especially since this is hardly advertised to users.

Parent got downvoted, but I think it's a legitimate concern: refusing people rides because for whatever reason (old phone, poor / expensive Internet connectivity) they can't update the app is problematic.

It would be neat if they gave you a short list of temporary codes in the app that doesn't rely on connectivity that you could punch in when you call into an automated phone system.

They just need a freaking "Round trip button"!!

All it needs to do is take you back to where you started from based on where it last dropped you off.

You can use their mobile site instead: https://m.uber.com

That also has the advantage of not requiring invasive app permissions.

The last few times I tried to use the mobile site, it gave an error message claiming that requesting a car via the site was not authorized (it had worked for a few months before that).

Send their support a mail or tweet. See the thread at https://twitter.com/josh_triplett/status/587614288686096384 .

What? So every app update is a breaking change? That's awful software engineering practice.

Unfortunately, this could be as much Apple's fault as Uber's.

Could you explain how so?

iOS has a history of breaking the API with version updates. Sometimes it's such a PITA, large companies choose to remove their apps instead of upgrading them:

https://toucharcade.com/2015/09/23/bioshock-removal-2k-suppo...

Only if Apple changes their requirements, like disallowing access to the UDID, but even then you have plenty of time (and such changes are requirements on future versions) so it's very doubtful Apple has anything to do with this.

Agreed. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that they do it in order to avoid the cost of supporting older versions of their internal APIs. Interesting contrast to Facebook's engineering team, who maintains mobile apps for at least two years after their release:

Backwards Compatible: In a world of deployed native mobile applications with no forced upgrades, backwards compatibility is a challenge. Facebook, for example, releases apps on a two week fixed cycle and pledges to maintain those apps for at least two years. This means there are at a minimum 52 versions of our clients per platform querying our servers at any given time. Client-specified queries simplifies managing our backwards compatibility guarantees.

via https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2015/05/01/graphql-int...

I didn't know they had such a liberal backwards compatibility policy until I saw this GraphQL talk, which is a pretty interesting overview of why / how they do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLzZf34FJ8.

Makes me wonder how much money / how many users Uber loses by not supporting older versions.

At work we (like Uber) own the servers and the clients, and even then it's very time-consuming to support backwards compatibility. Occasionally, we all but have to require an update. Ours don't leave you stranded, so it's not apples-to-apples here, but it's a thing.

I think if you're a driver, an up to date phone is a business expense. The latest version of the app doesn't require the latest phone - just enough space.

Contract employees are supposed to be able to determine the tools they will use to complete their tasks, by law.

As part of the independent contractor guidelines, they have to supply the tool (versus the employer buying it for them).

But tools and equipment are commonly specified (even down to a specific tool model for insurance requirements or material brand for warranty requirements) as part of contracted labor.

If the job requires certain certain strength tools, you need a good enough tool to complete it. Like digging soft dirt tools vs breaking up hard stone tools to dig a hole somewhere...

And they are. Android versus iPhone, Nexus versus Galaxy, etc.

If I hire someone to cut down a tree on contract, I can't dictate their tool of choice - only that it complies with what's necessary to complete the work.

There are plenty of fair criticisms of Uber. This isn't one.

>Not everyone has the newest smartphone

The latest version of the app supports Android 4.0.3 and up, as well as iOS 7 and up.

>with tons of space

The iOS app is 59MB. In 2015, you're claiming it's unreasonable to ask for a few megabytes? What? 8GB flash drives were party favors 5 years ago.

8gb flash drives might be party favours, but as phones no longer let you stick a memory card in and the latest greatest handsets (eg: nexus 5x) are still shipping with 16 or 32gb of storage, the 50mb isn't insignificant.

Even if the OS uses 8GB of space you are talking about well under 1% of the leftover space. Sounds insignificant for something as important as transportation.

My phone is 2,5 years old and still works very well. Just has tons of bloatware (damn you HTC!). Might have to root the phone to uninstall that junk.

My friend had to update his otherwise-fine iPhone because of Uber's disdain for backward compatibility. Admittedly it was an older model phone. But everything he cared about worked fine with it until Uber pushed a mandatory new version of the app that required a newer iOS than the phone could run. To Uber's credit they did have a useful support response with a pointer to the mobile website. Still seemed awfully awkward.

Interesting requirement. I work on a large app with a large install base that is not just early adopters: we use 6 month minimum window to phase out services.

Used to be you could actually book a trip using SMS -- I did it that way for almost a year before I ever used the app, and then they phased that out.

Or maybe they are using it as a screening device for "better" drivers. I keep hearing that when Uber comes to a new city, the pay is pretty good so it attracts non-ESL speaking drivers. Maybe this is just a barrier to enter the marketplace to maintain those 'better' drivers. Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Or they could just pay their good employees better and then fire the poor ones.

P.S. I know that they claim that their drivers are not employees but if it walks like an employee and talks like an employee it's an employee.

Only if it gets paid like an employee.

I made this point upthread but contractors are free to use whatever tools they like to accomplish their tasks, by law.

Full-time employees are subject to using specified equipment by the employer.

Not exactly how it works.

Contractors can choose but it doesn't mean they can choose tools that don't do the job. If part f the job is storing backup data on a phone the tool needs to be a phone capable of storing backup data.

The biggest argument I've seen for uber drivers being contractors is that they can work for competitors at the same time. Any employee would get fired pretty quickly.

Please pay me per hour or give me a salary, I must be missing it. Oh wait, drivers are paid per ride, can start and stop work at any time, and can work

Please pay me per hour or give me a salary, I must be missing it. Oh wait, drivers are paid per ride, can start and stop work at any time, and can work other apps simultaneously.

What job lets you work with competitors while you are working?

That's the elephant no one is talking about Uber is obviously going to be attractive to those in the black economy.

I wonder if Uber realizes in the uk they will be on the hook if they employ those with out the right to work.

So if you hire a guy on the road to help you move, are you responsible to verify his immigration status?

I think these ride sharing apps also report giving you money as required by law, and you have to put in such info as an SSN in the USA so they can do background checks. I'm pretty sure they also do background checks in the UK and part of that will be your immigration status. It's just they are efficient and automated in doing so, so it seems like they don't check anything because of the speed.

Yes and in the UK its strict liability there isn't a defence of good faith if you accept fake id's even if its a very good fake your liable for I think a £10K fine

does that apply to contractors?

To the employers and I suspect that HRMC will class Uber drivers as employees as they did for Contractors in IT

Its huge. Takes a couple minutes to start on my Android phone. Having Spotify in there is the very definition of bloatware.

Where can I verify this?

It's very hard to maintain compatibility for different versions of mobile operating systems.

API's, etc. change or break completely all the time. Often it is simply a trade-off between acquiring new, perhaps more affluent users, and loosing those with less money to spend and cheaper phones.

The morality behind this is questionable off course.

And then you have people like in this comment.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10446977

> It's very hard to maintain compatibility for different versions of mobile operating systems.

Except it's not. It requires thought, but the reality is, they aren't trying to maintain compatibility, they are merely saying "Nope, you have to have the latest and greatest or it won't work" regardless of whether it would work or not.

If anything, this demonstrates that Uber itself is not concerned with quality. Considering my experiences with Uber in the past, this is not surprising.

Quality is many faceted. One aspect that's relevant here is predictability and Uber chooses to meet their prescribed level of predictability by controlling the phone OS/version.

Really? "It's very hard"? That's the explanation for such poor software engineering practices? I guess their engineers are only paid to solve easy problems.

The good software engineering practives of yesterday are for old people. Young people are just smarter. They move fast and break stuff. Makin' omelettes, man. Shhhyeah.

Good software engineering practices of yesterday were sometimes dumped for good reason.

oh but young people are idiots. That's right. Back to waterfall guys.I'll stand up the new CVS server.

Uber is not a software company. The only code they hack is the legal code.

Engineers are paid to solve problems that help the company make money.

If they ran the numbers and the cost was greater than the reward why would they both maintaining backward compatibility?

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