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Comment by mahranch | Hacker News Reader

This gets repeated a lot (the whole "Japan is racist!" trope) but it's nonsense. Actual studies carried out proved Japan is not only the least racist country in Asia, it's equal to most European countries. They're actually less racist than France. South Korea and India on the other hand, are orders of magnitude worse. See the study yourself:

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...

The reason why the myth gets perpetuated is because young, white affluent males go over there for whatever reason (teach for a while, anime, exotic extended trips, etc) and don't get treated like little princes. So they go back home, hop on their favorite "gaijin forum" and claim they were discriminated against and that Japan is racist. That's why young hot Japanese girls weren't throwing themselves at them, or why people weren't bending over backwards for them.

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I've been to Japan, and I didn't want to be treated like a little prince, I wanted to be treated like everyone else. Not better and not worse.

But it wasn't like that. People always tried to speak to me in English even when I demonstrated I could speak in Japanese. I saw onsen with "no foreigners" sings in front. Because my "race" can't be easily identified, I was more often than not asked where I am from, where my mother is from and where my father is from. I've heard of incidents where people of Arab-looking descent are stopped and questioned by police officers.

Are these examples of racism? Probably not (at least from my experience and perspective), however they are in my view, examples of a deep "us and them" attitude which ignores the fact that culture can be learned. Maybe it's naive of these people (or me), or there is some xenophobia etc.

I think perhaps the most convincing thing for me (not an example of racism) is where we have the situation of someone who has taken up a "Japanese" life in that he has become a citizen, has lived in Japan for an extended period of time and interacts daily within society. Most Japanese would not consider this person Japanese - but what more could such a person do to be Japanese?

This identity issue is provided from the outside, for inside he can feel as Japanese as he wants and get nowhere. On the other hand, if we were to put the situation with the US or perhaps a Western European country, we would see that a person would probably be more readily accepted as an American or a Brit.

Does racism exist? Probably, but it's certainly not as plain and commonplace as little hints of xenophobia and anything foreign being perceived as not-belonging or a little novelty.

Here's an interesting document worth reading: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1551462

It's called "The Wajin’s Whiteness: Law and Race Privilege".

Japan is the only country I've ever been refused a cab ride or entry to a business solely on account of being a　外人. In both occurrences I was completely sober, well dressed, and in the presence of native Japanese.

That's a purely personal experience, but these happened in Tokyo. The cab incident was even in Ginza - one of the most international portions of Tokyo.

Yes, plenty of white males go over to Japan and expect to be immediately accepted/worshipped/whatever, but just because their claims of racism are often able to be safely ignored, it doesn't mean that all accounts of it can be chalked up to unrealistic expectations and self entitlement.

I don't think your one-off experience (a personal anecdote)invalidates an entire academic study. My point, and the point of the article I linked, is that all countries are racist to one extent or another. It's just that relative to other countries, Japan isn't racist. In fact, they're one of the most tolerant countries around according to basically every research study. Yes, they're not as tolerant as America, but they're pretty darn close. I think people underestimate just how racially tolerant America is in relation to everyone else. It's one of the least racist countries in the world.

I flat out acknowledged that that is a personal anecdote in my comment.

Regarding the study, it requires that people self-report a negative attribute about themselves. We already know it's basic human nature to lie to cover up faults. Why do you expect a study that relies on self reporting is going to be accurate?

Go try to rent an apartment or lease a house as a foreigner in Japan. You will find it extremely difficult to do if you are not specifically looking in one of the expat housing areas. The Japanese may say they wouldn't mind a foreigner living next door in a study, but they make it an extremely difficult process for this to actually happen. This thread has already discussed the family registry, but another important aspect of it is what replaces the credit check in most Western countries - a contact at the company you work for. For a Japanese salaryman, all disputes with a landlord go through his boss. Didn't make rent? Boss talks with the salaryman. Landlord hasn't fixed the running water? Boss talks with the landlord. This isn't something you get as a foreigner unless you've been with the company for a very long time.

Buying a house? You better be doing it outright, or already have your citizenship. Even permanent resident status isn't going to be enough at many banking institutions.

You can read the accounts of plenty of expats who have lived in Japan the frequent struggles they face as foreigners, with the entire system being set up to put them at a disadvantage. There's quite a few of them that have talked about it on HN, even. And maybe Japan isn't more racist than most other countries - but it certainly is racist enough for people to have valid complaints.

> You can read the accounts of plenty of expats who have lived in Japan the frequent struggles they face as foreigners, with the entire system being set up to put them at a disadvantage.

I've read them, and I disagree with 99% of them. Sure, there's a couple legit ones, but the vast majority are massively exaggerated. Especially sites like Debito. If you go on reddit's Japan forum (/r/Japan), you mention debito, you'll get laughed at. The guy literally profits from pointing out discrimination and intolerance in Japan. That's how he makes his money so it's in his interest to exaggerate everything. He's written books on the matter.

I don't really want to come across as some overly liberal social justice warrior, but most of those complaints you speak of aren't justified. As I stated above, it's just 20-something white kids not getting treated the same as they did back home and they're not used to it. They're used to people bending over backwards for them, receiving handouts and not being ignored. They were sheltered most of their lives (as were the majority of all millennials) so when they get to Japan and get treated differently, all of the sudden it has to be "racism".

That's really what's happening here. They're conflating their culture shock with racism. I'm an expat myself. I've spoken of my time in Japan here on hackernews several times. I find it's no more racist than any other country I've traveled too. In fact, it's probably the least racist country I've been to, only behind America. Hell, I saw more racism in Sydney the last time I was there.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that "less racist than France" means "not racist". And even if you buy that silly study as an objective measure of the deeply complex topic of racism, it still marks Japan as less racially tolerant than the Anglo countries those who perpetuate that "myth" likely hail from.

> And even if you buy that silly study

I love how the study doesn't agree with your preconceptions so it must be "silly". The study was done by 2 Swedish researchers at a university, not by some online poll. It's backed up by academic rigor. That's about as hard science as it gets.

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