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Comment by duaneb | Hacker News Reader

> North America, please stop abusing using "stop" signs. No one stops anyway, just make them "Yield" signs unless its a seriously bad intersection.

Maybe outside of cities. In cities, they are the best thing ever for pedestrians.

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I disagree. I think roundabouts like this one are much better for pedestrians:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5513462,-121.7200079,3a,75y,...

As a driver, there's 2 places I need to watch for pedestrians: just before I get into the roundabout, and right at the exit. And the place I need to watch for is the width of a lane of traffic that's directly in front of me. Compared to a 4-way stop. Now there's nearly 180 degrees I need to look: pedestrians crossing the street directly in front of you (so directly left and right), pedestrians crossing the direction you're going to, and the 3 other cars that are stopped at the lights trying to figure out whose turn it really is, since only one person can go because pedestrians are blocking. And then when someone starts going someone inevitably goes into the intersection even though it's not their turn. And bikes/pedestrians not even stopping and looking before going into the intersection. 4-way stops are a complete cluster when there's heavy pedestrian traffic and even a moderate amount of car traffic.

I drive through that particular roundabout multiple times a day. At least 5% of the vehicles I encounter there will stop and yield to other traffic that is only approaching the roundabout, or more maddeningly, stop in the middle when they see traffic approaching.

I've had to slam on my brakes because someone wasn't stopping (and then they waved at me to thank me for stopping for them...). But that was once after the hundreds of time through there. I know it's not quite fair since they're at different places, but compare the roundabout to something like 3rd and F at 12:30. It's a nightmare there, whereas even when there's a bus letting off 60 people walking to the apartments by that roundabout, it's not that unpleasant.

I don't know about you, but in my mind when I see a yield sign...i'll stop if it makes sense. I don't feel that the stop sign changes my desire to not run over someone all that much. As a driver I want the flexibility to make a judgement on if stopping is required based on the situation. Maybe a red sign makes sense to provide additional information ("this is a bad intersection, be extra careful!") but I don't like that the sign requires me to stop, even if it doesn't make sense.

This goes back to my ongoing complain that driving laws are very relaxed (i.e. speed limits never complied with - but for some reason we still have them?) and its causing an inconsistent approach to driving. For example, hardly anyone signals when turning or changing lanes, and if they do its by the time they're already well into the turn. Its just bad driving, dangerous and quiet frankly while I do not want stricter laws, or more enforcement...i'd appreciate some consistency in how people behave on the roads.

To me this is just adds to the vibe of the 'broken window' issue with roads and how people interact with them right now.

Agreed. And besides which stop signs may get treated as yield but yield signs are treated even worse.

The only thing better than stop signs for pedestrians (and I'd say they're better than traffic lights with dedicated pedestrian signals in most cases) is probably total chaos (as per some cities in switzerland) where there's seven way intersections with trams and no clear boundary between sidewalk and road, and motorists just need to stop and figure it out.

Cars still would still have to stop for pedestrians at the yield sign. Works very well in other countries. If there are too many pedestrians, just put a traffic light up to regulate traffic between pedestrians and cars. Key here though is that the light isn't on a timer but actually adjusts to someone pressing the button or a car rolling over a sensor in the ground.

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