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Comment by r0m4n0 | Hacker News Reader

Or my personal favorite in Sacramento, roundabout with some stop signs sprinkled in. I hear horns and accidents daily...

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5801855,-121.4694376,3a,75y,...

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Roundabouts with stop signs are insane, i see them in Ontario too and cannot figure them out.

Coming from Australia (that admittedly at times tends to over uses roundabouts) all i can ever wonder when i see a quiet road with traffic lights, or a seemingly pointless 4 way stop sign is "WHY IS THIS NOT A ROUNDABOUT?" I agree at a certain volume there are better alternatives, but there are massive benefits for a very long time and if you have the room for a large enough roundabout they can handle massive volume.

Here is a decent example that is just near Newcastle University in Australia. Traffic lights here would likely be much slower: https://goo.gl/maps/MPhri8vrt5M2

Side note: North America, please stop abusing using "stop" signs. No one stops anyway, just make them "Yield" signs unless its a seriously bad intersection.

> North America, please stop abusing using "stop" signs. No one stops anyway, just make them "Yield" signs unless its a seriously bad intersection.

Maybe outside of cities. In cities, they are the best thing ever for pedestrians.

Agreed. And besides which stop signs may get treated as yield but yield signs are treated even worse.

The only thing better than stop signs for pedestrians (and I'd say they're better than traffic lights with dedicated pedestrian signals in most cases) is probably total chaos (as per some cities in switzerland) where there's seven way intersections with trams and no clear boundary between sidewalk and road, and motorists just need to stop and figure it out.

Cars still would still have to stop for pedestrians at the yield sign. Works very well in other countries. If there are too many pedestrians, just put a traffic light up to regulate traffic between pedestrians and cars. Key here though is that the light isn't on a timer but actually adjusts to someone pressing the button or a car rolling over a sensor in the ground.

I disagree. I think roundabouts like this one are much better for pedestrians:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5513462,-121.7200079,3a,75y,...

As a driver, there's 2 places I need to watch for pedestrians: just before I get into the roundabout, and right at the exit. And the place I need to watch for is the width of a lane of traffic that's directly in front of me. Compared to a 4-way stop. Now there's nearly 180 degrees I need to look: pedestrians crossing the street directly in front of you (so directly left and right), pedestrians crossing the direction you're going to, and the 3 other cars that are stopped at the lights trying to figure out whose turn it really is, since only one person can go because pedestrians are blocking. And then when someone starts going someone inevitably goes into the intersection even though it's not their turn. And bikes/pedestrians not even stopping and looking before going into the intersection. 4-way stops are a complete cluster when there's heavy pedestrian traffic and even a moderate amount of car traffic.

I drive through that particular roundabout multiple times a day. At least 5% of the vehicles I encounter there will stop and yield to other traffic that is only approaching the roundabout, or more maddeningly, stop in the middle when they see traffic approaching.

I've had to slam on my brakes because someone wasn't stopping (and then they waved at me to thank me for stopping for them...). But that was once after the hundreds of time through there. I know it's not quite fair since they're at different places, but compare the roundabout to something like 3rd and F at 12:30. It's a nightmare there, whereas even when there's a bus letting off 60 people walking to the apartments by that roundabout, it's not that unpleasant.

I don't know about you, but in my mind when I see a yield sign...i'll stop if it makes sense. I don't feel that the stop sign changes my desire to not run over someone all that much. As a driver I want the flexibility to make a judgement on if stopping is required based on the situation. Maybe a red sign makes sense to provide additional information ("this is a bad intersection, be extra careful!") but I don't like that the sign requires me to stop, even if it doesn't make sense.

This goes back to my ongoing complain that driving laws are very relaxed (i.e. speed limits never complied with - but for some reason we still have them?) and its causing an inconsistent approach to driving. For example, hardly anyone signals when turning or changing lanes, and if they do its by the time they're already well into the turn. Its just bad driving, dangerous and quiet frankly while I do not want stricter laws, or more enforcement...i'd appreciate some consistency in how people behave on the roads.

To me this is just adds to the vibe of the 'broken window' issue with roads and how people interact with them right now.

For true insanity you need to go to Washington DC which has roundabouts with divided lanes, pedestrian crossings, traffic lights, stop signs, and turning lanes.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9092507...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9020455...

This is pretty common in France. Every major city has like dozens of these kinds of intersections (e.g. behind the Trocadero, around the Arc de Triomphe, etc)

My recollection is that the roundabouts in Paris are free for alls (a whole different kind of crazy, but it seems to work). I checked the satellite images of the circle around the arc de triomphe and it seems to be as I remember. There may be lights regulating entry into the circle, but the lanes aren't divided. And if I recall correctly pedestrians access the middle via underground walkway.

I just checked via Google street view and it confirms my memory.

Traffic circles and rotaries are not modern roundabouts. If any of the entry lanes has a stop sign, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you could play a game of football in the center landscaped area, it’s not a modern roundabout. If the circular roadway has a stop sign, yield sign or signal, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you don’t have to slow down to enter it, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you have to change lanes in the circular roadway to exit, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you can easily drive faster than 20 mph in the circular roadway, it’s not a modern roundabout. If it has a park for pedestrians, or a building, in the middle, it’s not a modern roundabout.

That's not really a roundabout though, it's a traffic circle, which is a replacement for speed bumps. I have one of those near my house in Sacramento as well.

Live in Sacramento, the half-roundabouts drive me crazy. Here's another:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6759386,-121.5367581,3a,90y,...

Neighborhood traffic circles are not modern roundabouts. Many people confuse other and older styles of circular intersections with modern roundabouts. East coast rotaries, large multi-lane traffic circles (Arc D’Triomphe, Dupont Circle), and small neighborhood traffic circles are not modern roundabouts. If you want to see the difference between a traffic circle, a rotary (UK roundabout) and a modern roundabout (UK continental roundabout), go to http://tinyurl.com/kstate-RAB to see pictures. And here’s another site that shows the difference between an older rotary and a modern roundabout: http://tinyurl.com/bzf7qmg

There are some of these in Palo Alto, as well. I don't think they tend to result in accidents, but I never really understood the point of putting a stop sign on a roundabout.

If I remember correctly, the justification of these here is that they are better for bikes than 4-way stops (which is true, but they're probably not the optimal solution).

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4420644,-122.1552851,3a,75y,...

If it has a stop sign, it is a traffic circle with different rules than a modern roundabout.

Wait. Is that a 2-way stop? That looks dangerous as hell. If I come upon a stop sign with a island in the middle of the intersection, it is easy to assume that everyone has to stop.

There are a lot of 2-way stops in that area.

My wording is kinda of muddy. A 2-way stop isn't itself dangerous. I think seeing an island makes the intersection appear more like a roundabout, and makes drivers approaching from the side streets think that all entrances to that roundabout will have a stop sign.

DMV manual fail. All way stops have a small sign below the stop sign that says ALL WAY. Any stop sign without that rider sign is not at an all way stop intersection.

Yup. I am a fan of this sign (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cross_traffic_does_n...) instead of this one (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudie...)

If you look a few blocks away there's that sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5676945,-121.4748759,3a,75y,...

That's not a roundabout. That is a 2-way stop with a speed-abatement island.

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