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Comment by zongitsrinzler | Hacker News Reader

Visited NYC for the first time last week and god, I have been to a lot of subways and NYC's metro system was one of the creepiest.

Relative to how much it is used I wonder why they just don't throw money at the problem to make it a more attractive way of transportation instead of being only a necessity.

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These comments happen all the time, and represent a fundamental misunderstanding of what the NYC subway system is for. Namely, getting truly massive numbers of people (typically 5-6 million per day) to places they need to go quickly, completely around the clock.

You can compare apples to staplers by comparing it to other systems that don't do that, but that misses the point. When one actually moves here you start to realize just how the whole thing works, and realize that systems that close at night, or don't have express trains, are just hopelessly inferior and not a valid basis for comparison.

The real question to ask is, why can Tokyo Metro make a profit with those ridership numbers, but not the MTA?

I believe Tokyo Metro owns much of the retail space and some shopping developments connected to their stations. Based on casual observation it seems that they're better at making that real estate desirable compared to the NY Subway. I wonder how much of their profits comes from that?

Meanwhile, as someone from DC, I love the NYC subway. It is faster, the trains run more frequently, the stations are numerous and convenient, and it's cheap. I'd rather have a dirty, dimly lit system that works than the crap we have in DC.

Over the years, many of us New Yorkers grow to love the vibe of the subway, and over the years the cleaner smaller newer systems in places like DC just start to seem antiseptic and unnecessarily cute.

I wouldn't mind someone using a little antiseptic in many parts of the New York subway.

But underneath the grime there's some really gorgeous stuff down there. The original tile signs from the days of the IRT and BMT (and even some of the IND) are lovely, and have much more personality than any other subway I've taken.

These sorts of things: https://www.pinterest.com/fennecfoxen/old-subway-signs/

And this is still happening. Someone among the powers that be, budget crunches and old equipment be damned, is still prioritizing the creation of beautiful things underground, with no less personality than what came before.

http://nyclovesnyc.blogspot.de/2012/12/new-years-eve-themed-...

I'm not currently living in NYC, but a big perk of my yearly visit is being surprised and delighted with the new things that have popped up.

You could try London [1], the style is very similar.

The London Underground seems reasonably clean to me, but I used to live there. It's closed overnight, but it's also cleaned during the day — you will see a cleaner on many trips you make in the evening, and trains are often (usually?) cleaned quickly when they reach the end of the line.

Stockholm Metro also has some wonderful design, although it's modern.

[1] https://www.google.dk/search?q=leslie+london+underground+til...

The Guardian ran a photo-gallery "article" today on the Stockholm Metro's art:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2015/oct/20/art-st...

The MTA is treading water -- even factoring in inflation, a subway ride has gone from $1.50 in 2000 ($2.07 in 2015 dollars, according to the BLS inflation calculator [0]) to $2.75 today. On top of that, the MTA is stingier with "bonus" fare costs -- the threshold for the bonus is higher ($10 to $15) and the amount is lower (15% to 10%) -- and you now pay a $1.00 fee for a new card.

[0] http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

It's a way to get from point a to point b, I don't think creepiness is a big factor for me. Good lighting is a different story.

As a very infrequent visitor (typically during the summer), I'd prefer a bit more ventilation.

When there are homeless people taking a dump on the platform and hundreds of positively disgusting surfaces.. Creepy doesn't even begin to describe it. Dirty, disgusting and dungeon like isn't a virtue. Combine that with the horrid lack of accessibility and you have the NYC subway. Even PATH looks like luxury compared to riding the metro. Funny how NYC claims to be 'progressive' yet someone in a wheelchair or a mom with small children can't safely use much of the system. Seoul has double the population, yet their system is twice as clean.

Talk about sour grapes... It's anecdote against anecdote, but have you ever actually seen someone taking a crap on a platform? I've ridden the subway several thousands of times in the past decade and I've never seen someone take a dump on the platform or train. That's one of those stories that everyone talks about, imagines, and hits the front page of Gothamist, but is in all likelihood farther and fewer between in reality, than in the stories we tell.

A "progressive" city can still have legacy parts, and those legacy parts are supplemented by custom features. All regular NYC Buses are handicap accessible. There are 24/7, door-to-door, paratransit services for handicapped people that cost the same as a subway fare [0]. Sure, the NYC Subway isn't Seoul or Singapore's, but it runs 24/7 (Seoul's only runs 5:30-Midnight) and the stations on average are probably ~20-30 years older than the oldest parts of the Seoul Metro (early 70s). The unofficial handicapped accessible subway map is depressingly sparse [1], but it seems on par with London's [2] and better than Paris' [3]. (Neither of which are 24 hour systems, BTW.)

I'll admit that the surfaces are gross and the subway collects the most unfortunate, down on their luck members of society, but your post reads as a total condemnation of the best mass transit system in the US. It's dirty and depressing at times, but it's also one of the great equalizers in New York City life.

[0] http://web.mta.info/nyct/paratran/guide.htm#what_is

[1] https://subwayrecord.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/ada-subway-...

[2] http://content.tfl.gov.uk/step-free-tube-guide-map.pdf

[3] http://parisbytrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/plan_pbs....

I did see someone pooping once. The train car cleared out pretty fast. I also got threatened twice during rush hour. When I first moved to NY, I tried talking to the good people at the counter ... never made that mistake again. After a bit, I just started taking cabs. I did encounter traffic jams periodically but felt a better experience overall. Btw .. I also have respect for NYC cabbies. They are the opposite of Bay area cabbies. I try to not use Uber when I am in NY. Anyways ... the NYC subway sucks when compared to international standards. If you travel a bit internationally, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Travelling internationally has reinforced my positive opinions of NYC's mass transit. Sure, it's occasionally gross, and certainly less polished than London or Paris, but it's 24 hour presence is truly special. It's redundancy and express/local service patterns are also unique. You seem to be able to afford cabs -- that isn't the case for a good portion of NYC's population. That I can go from Williamsburg to Inwood in ~1 hr. 15 min. for $2.50 at 2am Sunday morning....that's something special that other cities can't compare on.

I'm not excusing the cost overruns and budget mishaps the MTA is prone to, but these stereotypes of a cesspool-like NYC mass transit are dated and a disservice to their actual typical operating conditions.

Several cities in Europe that don't run 24h/day every day at least run overnight on Friday and Saturday nights. (London doesn't, since the unions are currently blocking it.)

But your point would work if you'd chosen 2am on Monday.

Copenhagen's metro runs 24 hours a day, every day, but it's small and new (and entirely automated).

I've actually seen it... But that was over 20 years ago. (I really can't get the image out of my head, even after all this time...)

FWIW... I love the NYC Subway, and wish there was more money/attention paid to it. (Especially seeing the metros of other cites in the world.

I guess it is attractive enough as it is?

In other words, subway is efficient because it is always competitive with the congestion over ground, and even if it is creepy, it continues to be used.

A truly american approach. :)

"It works well enough, sort of, so don't touch it."

Not just American (I'm not American, but I recognize the tendency. It's not broken, so don't fix it... and even if it is broken, just fix it, don't try anything fancy.)

Yeah, why not throw a few billion at it; like the "Big Dig". What could go wrong?

The big dig catches a lot of flack, but the value it added to the city is almost incalculable. The North End alone has probably doubled in land value. In the long run, it will more than pay for itself.

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