Earliest Known Draft of King James Bible Is Found, Scholar Says
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
(A side-note regarding the Empire and Christianization: in the early centuries of the Empire, the British were primarily interested in trade and conquest, but not so much in evangelization and conversion of native peoples. The East India Company (EIC) was a good example of this: as long as profits and goods flowed in from India, the leaders of the EIC were content not only to leave native religions alone, but even to intermarry with native Muslims and Hindus and allow each wife to raise her children in her own particular faith tradition. Hence the creation of a new ethnicity: the Anglo-Indian. However, in the 19th century, an evangelical revival effected a sea-change in British Christianity, and thus the Empire became a vast instrument of evangelization and conversion. At this point, I think, the KJV became important for world history, rather than British history in particular.)
As mentioned by other, the NASB and the ESV are also both good choices. I really like the NASB for study, but find the language choices make it a little jarring (compared the ESV or HCSB), so I tend not to use it for regular personal reading.
If you want to read the Bible smoothly there's the NLT (New Living Translation) reads very nicely for today's day and age. There's different translations for different purposes, I enjoy reading many of them. If you want to read the New Testament from a different source (most translations use Greek) there is Aramaic New Testament in Plain English (from the Peshitta Script written in Aramaic) which clears up some confusing verses in the New Testament. Such as the famous camel through the eye of a needle becomes a rope passing through the eye of a needle which reads clearer.
I have studied 2 years of Greek and Hebrew and some Aramaic. The more I learned of these languages the more I realized how good our own translations are. All the modern translations are good but I do have two recommendations. New Living Translation is the best reading bible. It just is well written in sentence structure and word choices. New Revised Standard is the best "study" translation. To me it has the best "word for word" though I must say my old Hebrew teacher HATES this version's Old Testament version's word choices. (For example NIV translate the Greek word SOMA (flesh) sinful nature, I have an issue with that. In the Old Testament there are similar things that are merely differences in opinion) As a Linux and Open Source (Free Software) person I hate these copyrights so there are a few open license projects that I haven' dug into yet.
There's a big difference between KJV-onlyism and preferring the KJV over other translations. The former insists something that the KJV translators themselves never did: that the KJV is the only legitimate Bible translation, and specially favoured and preserved by God over other translations.
We prefer the Byzantine tradition manuscripts to the Alexandrian tradition. The KJV is a good translation mainly based on the Byzantine tradition, with some more sticky cases. There isn't as much work being done with the Byzantine tradition these days, as most editions being published, whether evangelical or mainline, use the Alexandrian tradition texts primarily.
"Thou shalt not kill" sounds a whole lot better than "Don't kill" even though the former has two words missing from modern English.
Along those lines, from a literary and cultural perspective, I think most folks who want to participate in English-speaking nations would be good to have a solid literary background in the KJV. There's just too much allusion and metaphor scattered about to forgo it. There are also a bunch of second-tier texts to know, but as far as cultural impact, as far as I can see, the KSV is way out ahead of the rest.
I do not know if the same can be said of the Bhagavad Gita and Indian culture, although from what I can tell, the Koran plays a huge role in many other societies. Understanding mythical and mystical works gives interlocutors a huge common metaphorical and allegorical reserve that just isn't possible without them.
>"Hitchens called the contemporary version "pancake-flat" and more suited for 'a basement meeting of A.A.'"
The message of the Bible is mind-blowing:
"Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool."
Isaiah 1:18, circa 700 years before Christ.
I suppose there's a sweet spot between how authentic-sounding the translation is and how complex the diction is.
The only English Bible translation that I've ever heard criticized for readability because of the directness of its translation from a Latin (intermediary, obviously, as its not the original language of any of the books of the Bible) source is the original (before the mid-18th Century revision) Douay-Rheims.
I'd agree that that is among the more serious problems of the KJV (and others with a similar approach to English, e.g., the Douay-Rheims).
It's not that it's semi-archaic, I think, but rather that it was explicitly designed to be read out loud. Good text for reading out loud requires particular, natural rhythms (and pronunciation guides for those troublesome Hebrew names), and a hyper-accurate translation would favor the more accurate word choice over those that fit rhythmic flow better.
I agree, the KJV is not the easiest to read and a new Christian might want to start on something a little easier. But it is my advice that one hopefully outgrow the easier version as quick as possible.
The KJV authors were genuine people as well. They were not bent on making a name for themselves which is what the basis for every modern translation is (other than money).
I disagree that new translations are somehow "more accurate". From a handful of older manuscripts, that disagree not only with the originals used in the KJV but they also disagree amongst themselves, we get a hodgepodge of missing sentence fragments, and re-wordings that for what ever reason where backported into the Nestle greek from which most modern translations are derived. There are plenty of books written on the topic, the most recent being: http://amzn.com/B00KTV5GM2 (note I am not advocating any particular one,nor have I read any. What I speak of is from my own personal study).
And the worst thing of all is none of the "modern bible" movements were ever lead by Christians. It was the complete opposite; lead by secularists and skeptics alike who's only goal seemed to be how many verses they could get away with removing. Verses were never added, only removed.
In the end, there was no reason for the Christian community to be involved in this. The Christians already had a bible that had proved itself to be trustworthy and well liked.
"Yea, hath God said?"
--Satan, Genesis 3:1Comparison between the three:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+1&version=...
Personally, I don't think that any edition written in English (or latin for that matter) can be close to a canonical version of the Bible... nor do I think it is necessary that one is.
It is based on the ASV but is being translated to avoid copyright.
[0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/530877925/bibliotheca/d...
[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/530877925/bibliotheca/p...
I currently have four sets on order. One for myself and three as gifts for some close friends. They'll be for Christmas 2016 now, which is too bad, but oh well.
The KJV isn't perfect, and we do have better manuscripts now, but it's still a very popular Bible translation worldwide.
Still, you seem to have a point about its popularity. According to this list, it's #2 (behind the NIV) in sales. That's a lot higher than I would have expected, given how rarely I see it used or quoted in my circles.
http://thomrainer.com/2014/12/top-ten-bible-translations-201...
"Suffer little children"
Singing "Suffer little children" in church always struck me as odd. As a kid, I'd puzzle over why Jesus would say "suffer".
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19%3A14...
A similar usage in the KJV is "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", which means "You shall not allow a witch to live".
> tolerate.
> "France will no longer suffer the existing government"
> synonyms: tolerate, put up with, bear, brook, stand, abide, endure, support, accept, weather; More
"Those children aren't annoying, they're welcome in my churchy stuff"
A few weeks ago at an ATM, having keyed-in the amount I wished to withdraw, I was presented with 3 options: Cancel Confirm *Correct
All of the above are verbs, but I instinctively clicked 'Correct' taking the adjective meaning "This number is correct". The machine then asked me to re-input a withdrawal amount. The machine was focused on it's action; I was focused on the context of the number.
A jarring reminder that even for everyday words, context is important. This is relevant for a historic text such as the Bible, and for our work interacting, and creating or using systems that create interaction for others.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/search/word,suffer
>"To allow; to permit; not to forbid or hinder. Will you suffer yourself to be insulted?"
:)
New Living Translation is the best reading bible. It just is well written in sentence structure and word choices.
New Revised Standard is the best "study" translation. To me it has the best "word for word" though I must say my old Hebrew teacher HATES this version's Old Testament version's word choices. (For example NIV translate the Greek word SOMA (flesh) sinful nature, I have an issue with that. In the Old Testament there are similar things that are merely differences in opinion)
As a Linux and Open Source (Free Software) person I hate these copyrights so there are a few open license projects that I haven' dug into yet.
That said, I agree with your Hebrew teacher that it's not my top scholarly choice for the Hebrew bible. For that, I prefer the New Jewish Publication Society translation. Just as the NRSV, it's very easy to find with full scholarly commentary and without best-guess emendations (i.e., if the Hebrew makes no sense, or the meaning of a word has been forgotten, they will clearly mark it, rather than reaching to the Septuagint/Vulgate/Targum for a translation), but in my personal opinion, the NJPS translation is a bit more accurate.
The author of SAB fell into the snarky dismissal trap in more than a few places. It cheapens the work greatly.
The bible says day and night were created several days before the Sun (and each day has an morning, daylight, evening, and night period). Educated humans now know this is because of the Earth's rotation where the side of the Earth facing the sun is in daylight. The SAB I listed points out this flaw. The link you listed states "Obviously there were photons before there were stars" as it's rebuttal. I'm sorry but it's hard for me to even proceed any further. It's almost laughable.
So am I, as a logical person, supposed to believe that god is shooting various amounts of photons from his/her fingers creating these beautiful periods of morning, day, evening, and night for three days or so for no apparent reason? God hasn't created humans yet. God hasn't created plants yet. It serves no function. It's not like he's doing testing before it goes into production - the production environment uses a star (our Sun) and the Earth's rotation to create periods of day and night.
Finally, a few verses later the bible says "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also." The SAB rightfully points out that the moon does not emit light - it only reflects the Sun's light. The link you provided offers the following rebuttal: "obviously the author of the SAB hasn't spend much time outside at night at full moon. That's a lot of light". Hehe..
I do find the link you provided amusing but also a bit depressing honestly. People want so much to believe that they're willing to accept a rebuttal like the one you provided without even thinking for themselves.
If you're a hard empiricist, you will find nothing in the bible of interest to your life, save for historic/anthropological curiosity. There's no point in getting into such a discussion on Hacker News, interesting as that might be.
But the specific thing you mentioned - as an omnipotent being, the very idea of our existence "has no point", let alone the order elementary building blocks of the universe came into existence (at least as described by bronze-age scribes).
Be very careful with the "this has no reason to be this way" argument, it could very well be that you don't know the reason, or that there really isn't one.
A better "first time" reading plan would be to start in the book of John and through that and Acts, and Romans (they are all back to back). John shows Christ as God.
Acts shows the founding of the church and the early works, including an interesting argument in Acts 15 about some thinking that in order to become "Christian", one must first convert to Judaism.
And Romans gives a better understand of the position of the Jew, the moralist, and the Gentile before God. (and the book of Hebrews expounds on this more too)
But back to your question. There are many views to the first couple of books in Genesis. Here is my take:
In verse 3: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
Ok, "light" is created. Everything good there.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Yep, no light means, well no light.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
So "Day" and "Night" spelled with a proper capitalization. And we have the phrase "evening and the morning" mentioned with no context as to how long the "evening and the morning" are or how long a "Day" is.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Next up we clearly see the timing and "setting" of the mathematics behind our solar system, using the elements mentioned above "Day", and "Night", and even expounding into months and years.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
This is not a separate event from the last verse, this is the solution to how our days and years are timed. Instead of "And God made two great lights", think of "And so God made two great lights".
This is how I've always taken this chapter. Perhaps it is terrible, or perhaps not. But clearly, the days and evenings mentioned in the earlier verses are not in the same context or definition as we (people that live on Earth) would normally think of them as. This is also where "gap theory" comes in, but I personally reject that as well.
Just because you don't know what the reason is, doesn't mean that there isn't one.
"God hasn't created humans yet. God hasn't created plants yet. It serves no function."
Again, just because you see no function, doesn't mean there isn't one. But there are logical explanations that scholars have suggested which do make sense.
One thing you might take into consideration is that the Bible says that in Heaven there is no sun and moon, but that it is illuminated by God Himself. There is no reason that in the midst of His creating the Earth, the same could not be true. Some scholars have proposed that the reason God set the pattern of the days and nights before creating the sun and moon was because He knew some men would tend to worship the sun and moon themselves, and He wanted to make it clear that it is He who sustains the Earth, not the sun and moon. I don't know if that was the reason, though it seems quite logical to me. I am content to believe God had a good reason, and He doesn't have to tell me what it was.
I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when reading the Bible, is that if something isn't explainable by natural phenomenon, they discount it entirely. But that doesn't make any sense. If you do not believe in the supernatural, then God doesn't make any sense. The whole point is that the creation is something He created, and that all of the "natural" norms we see from day to day are something that He put in place, and that He sometimes suspends for His own purposes (for instance, when Moses parted the Red Sea, or when God made the sun and moon stand still for Joshua). Even in that last example, I can hear people protesting about all the side-effects that would happen if "the sun and moon stood still". But again, the point is that everything is under God's control, and all of the interactions of matter in our universe operate as He has decided they will -- and He's under no obligation to make them always work one way. He can make it work however He wants, and that includes suspending the normal interaction of matter (normal side-effects and all) for however long and for whatever purpose He decides.
BTW, I'm not saying you are necessarily discounting anything because it requires the existence of the supernatural. I merely bring it up because I think it is relevant to the discussion.
(edited for formatting -- I keep forgetting to not indent the first lines of paragraphs :-D )
The people behind SAB simply went through the bible and picked out things to make fun of, completely devoid of any context, background, or doctrine.
If you are a skeptic, "bible apologetics" is what you should be googling. Not SAB, you will not learn anything from that.
"The King James Bible is the most widely read work in English literature, a masterpiece of translation whose stately cadences and transcendent phrases have long been seen, even by secular readers, as having emerged from a kind of collective divine inspiration"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale "In 1611 the 54 scholars who produced the King James Bible drew significantly from Tyndale, as well as from translations that descended from his. One estimate suggests the New Testament in the King James Version is 83% Tyndale's and the Old Testament 76%."
Libraries do (or should do) collections management, whereby the librarians go through the records and find out which resources aren't being used and weed them. Ideally, if it isn't used, it's taking up space, and it's gone. This is balanced by acquisition, such that the net effect is a constant churn of what's there, so there shouldn't be much chance for anything to sit and molder where nobody knows where, let alone what, it is.
Archives don't do collections management of that sort. They do preservation, and ideally they never get rid of anything. Moldering (in a metaphorical, but hopefully not physical!) sense is very possible in an archive.
It's not exactly surprising that they might have forgotten or misplaced a few things.
Now does the draft contain the famous "Thou shalt commit adultery"? I bet they just blamed the typesetter but really ... :-)
I would of course be very surprised anyone meant to put it in maliciously.
I've read this many times, but is it true? Are there real sources to support this claim?
http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1619318.ece
It's certainly interesting to get a view into a the processes behind a a four hundred year old, geographically distributed, 50 scholar collaboration.