Ask HN: Any advice for a programmer who has hit rock bottom?

As someone that had depresion, I know how you feel.

> my other account is quite active on here

1.- STOP READING HN! Go out, read books, do hard work (dig holes, plant trees, etc), sweat! exercise! there's more to life than the latest startups and 'show hn' posts.

2.- watch funny movies Seriously, I had a ritual, every night after work I'd prepare dinner, and watch something funny, every single night. No excuses. This helped a lot.

3.- exercise. Helps with mood. I think this is even better than medicine.

4.- leave HN, there are other things more important.

5.- find a hobby or do something different. I decided to do something bigger: I had enough with my previous career and wasn't happy, So, I entered school again to study a different career 10 years later. This saved me.

6.- it gets better.

7.- Oh, and don't sleep at daytime, keep a schedule, a routine, sleep at night.

8.- Don't play videogames, avoid repetitive stuff: like 3d shooters where you play again and again the same levels.

9.- Again, find a hobby, something that makes you go out.

Drop me an email if you need anything

I tried those same things when I broke my arm. What ended up really working was seeing a doctor. I'd encourage OP to do the same.

(I am the OP, locked myself out of the account due to settings) Thanks for your advice. I have been trying and avoiding contact with people because I always feel low in confidence. This is a recent phenomenon, I have been quite social in the past. Will try and do these things.Thanks again.

You forgot: 10.- Eat healthy and drink lots of water. Fruits and veggies, less bread and potatoes.

(I can be presumptuous in saying I know you forgot #10 because it feels like I wrote your list myself...)

I'd like to add an increase in your fish and seaweed intake will also be beneficial. There are so many things interfering with iodine uptake in our thyroids that this warrants some serious attention. You can also google "iodine cured my depression". I can honestly say it did for me as well. What fefifofu has said about "less bread" is extremely important.

yes man!

healthy food = big pump in better mood!

I will definitely try and follow your advice. It's not easy though. Quitting HN is all the more difficult. You have mentioned it twice. Thanks again!

Hey, I tried emailing you, but it bounced back.

odd, added more emails, email me!

Do you have a therapist or someone to talk to who will give you the ability to just voice your thoughts without judgement? If not, I highly recommend that you seek one out. If you have one and are unsatisfied, you should find a new one.

In the meantime, I am not sure you have hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is where you realize that there is a way up from here. You are still looking down into an abyss. Still, this might be the point at which you change your life. Start by changing your perspective. Every day, you have taken a step towards where you are now. Were all of those steps fumbles or mistakes or failures? You wouldn't be where you are if that is the case. There is evidence of success. What are those successes? How did you deal with adversity to claim those successes? There is evidence that you have overcome challenges.

From another angle: right now you have a good job and a career and you are depressed. If you take a menial job, you will probably be unsatisfied, broke, and depressed. If there is anything I've learned in this life: No matter where you go, there _you_ are. Still you.

Lastly, start building upon and celebrating little successes starting today. Any little thing will suffice. Every little thing. Do the same tomorrow. Make your way up the chain until you are celebrating success at the scale you want.

Hang in there. You are not alone.

I do have a therapist, but not a counselor. I will try and find one. I have a very supportive spouse.

Thanks for your kind words.

These are classic symptoms of clinical / major depression. You have not found the right medications that help you yet. Keep seeing a psychiatrist who can help you find the right medication. Each time you switch it can take 10-12 weeks to know if that medication works for you. Please don't give up on the search for medication with a psychiatrist you trust.

If you find your cognitive abilities are lower than they used to be, don't worry. Those will come back too; but are the last thing to return after getting better.

Yep, my problem solving skills have taken a hit in the past few months. The progress is slow. I haven't been able to put enough hard work, it just seems pointless. I hope it gets better. Thanks

I also suffer from depression and anxiety. I have since I was 15 years old. I believe in runs in my family. I've only sought professional treatment for this in the past several years. I see a psychiatrist and I take some medications. It has been difficult. It still is difficult, but I'm doing pretty well.

I recommend that you seek out a psychiatrist. A lot of people don't understand that chronic depression and anxiety are real ailments. They will tell you things like "you're fine, it's just in your head!" Don't listen to these people. They mean well but they are ignorant. Get the help you need.

Feel free to message me.

Good luck to you!

I also suggest seeing a therapist. Can be a helpful complement to a psychiatrist.

Thanks @alansmitheebk. Your words give me courage to fight back.

The depression doesn't help, but this sounds more like stress. Don't know how much it will help, as I don't suffer from depressin, but occasionally I'll get myself into a rut like that, and I found a few things that help.

Sleep at night. No more late nights, give your brain a rest before bed. Limit your caffeine to the morning - and no naps either. Sleep a full 8 hours, and willingly go to bed early enough that you have an extra hour of leeway in the morning. You'll feel tired until your body adjusts, but it will.

Get some cardio in - go for a run, ride a bike, or swim. Do something to get your heart rate up. Your body will naturally reward you, and will help calm you down mentally. Pay attention to your body, and add more cardio as you can tolerate it.

Keep a day-to-day list of things that you have to accomplish, and update it as part of your morning routine. I would recommend the Bullet Journal method, since that's been working for me. This will help you keep on track and see what you've actually accomplished.

Break down tasks that seem too daunting into smaller portions. Something that may sound simple like deploying an application can be overwhelming until it's broken down into smaller steps. Smaller steps also lead to more frequent wins, which will act as encouragement since you'll get to see progress.

And finally, don't expect to get so many things done per day. Focus on one or two things and work on them. If you add more than that, you'll just compound your stress which will turn into a vicious cycle because you'll constantly feel behind on your work.

Good luck, you're in a spot that plenty of people have been in, including myself, but even if this isn't it, there /is/ a way out.

This, exactly! I have problem sleeping early at night. Thoughts and anxiety prevent me from sleeping. I don't have insomnia, I feel very sleepy, but very afraid and restless.

Also, I get overwhelmed by any task at hand. It starts getting procrastinated. Fear creeps in. Confidence takes a hit.

Sounds like you might be suffering from "imposter syndrome". A good number of high functioning, highly productive people who really care about their work suffer from this. It's normal and once you learn to control is, it can differentiate you from your peers.

http://lifehacker.com/overcoming-impostor-syndrome-what-to-d...

I suggest that you take a different approach to dealing with your depression and anxiety, brain biochemistry is only a link in a huge cause-effect chain. If you win the lottery you may experience a big dopamine high, but a dopamine high won't make you win the lottery.

View your brain as a super computer (which certainly is) and your personality as an operating system which you must hack to get rid of bugs and malwares. You must crack those thought patterns that make you feel miserable and recover the full control of your system, you couldn't even get up on your feet if you had lost all of your willpower.

(I am not saying that you drop medication, just that don't rely on it as the only form of healing).

To feel Ok about programming again, try to have small personal projects which are easy to complete. Find new ways to deal with boring, monotonous and complex tasks at work. Rescue an old hobbie like playing guitar or find a new one.

EDIT:

I see these small buddhist koans as very insightful from a psychological - rather than religious - point of view. Basically mind suffering can only exist if there is an ego to experience it, and if you find that this ego is just a stream of recurrent thought patterns, you realize the absurd of fear and anxiety.

Huike said to Bodhidharma, “My mind is anxious. Please pacify it.” Bodhidharma replied, “Bring me your mind, and I will pacify it.” Huike said, “Although I’ve sought it, I cannot find it.” “There,” Bodhidharma replied, “I have pacified your mind.”

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A Zen student came to Bankei and said: "Master, I have an ungovernable temper -- how can I cure it?" "Show me this temper," said Bankei, "it sounds fascinating." "I haven't got it right now," said the student, "so I can't show it to you." "Well then" said Bankei, "bring it to me when you have it." "But I can't bring it just when I happen to have it," protested the student. "It arises unexpectedly, and I would surely lose it before I got it to you." "In that case," said Bankei, "it cannot be part of your true nature. If it were, you could show it to me at any time. When you were born you did not have it, and your parents did not give it to you -- so it must come into you from the outside.(...)"

Thanks @neurohax. Your advice will help.

Stop with those medications. Psychologists and doctors these days tend to fix everything by putting you under some generic label and give you some generic medication. Medication is a good fix if you have some inflammation in your elbow and you take antibiotics for a week or two, but taking medications for longer than that is just plain wrong. Usually it will only deal with the symptoms, while hiding the real problems.

I don't know you personally, but let me give you my general opinion about solving your problem:

- " I was diagnosed with depression a few years ago and since then have made peace with it" - Don't let other people tell you what you have, even if they have a PhD. What if this guy was wrong? Some doctor told me 10 years ago that I will never be able to walk properly, because knees don't heal. Guess what, it did heal. I run 10 Kilometers for fun every Friday.

- Start exercising. Go for some martial art if you can. Do it at least twice a week.

- Stop with the news. Any kind of news. Read a good long book instead.

- Meet some good friends, and do it often.

- Don't give up to yourself. Don't work at a boring non challenging job. It will rot your soul from the inside. Keep up with the challenging work. You don't have to go over your head, always aim just a bit higher than your comfort zone. If you feel things are too difficult for you at this point, ask your team to go easy for a while. No shame in doing that.

Life is beautiful. Do your best to enjoy your time here.

While I appreciate the sentiment you're going for, it should be notes that you have no authority to give medical advice, and OP should not go off his prescriptions based on your comment. What you should have said (and what OP should do) is to have a discussion about that possibility with his or her primary care physician. I don't care what the circumstances are, people should not accept unsolicited medical advice from anonymous users on the internet without fact checking with a doctor. Not all doctors push pills the way you're describing.

This definitely does not resonate with my experience and what helped me get better. I can tackle big challenges now, but even small failures during severe clinical depression can actually worsen depression.

Things WILL get better.

It takes time to find the right medication, but if you don't feel better within 2 weeks tell your doctor and they'll give your something. I've had people close to me go through the same thing and it took a while to finally hone in on something that works. I know it must feel like the most hopeless and frustrating situation, but hang in there. Something out there will work, you just need patience.

Just remember that it's not your fault. Good luck.

Thanks, but the most difficult part is to convince myself that it's not my fault. It always seems my fault.

I would encourage you to try meditation. It's not a cure for depression, but it can have effects that help. In the Zen tradition, Brad Warner's books have been very helpful to me. http://www.amazon.com/Hardcore-Zen-Monster-Movies-Reality/dp...

This sounds like a medical issue not a career one. I would focus on finding medical help from a competent professional.

Maybe .... just maybe... you don't like programming that much. Maybe... just maybe... sitting on a computer 5 days a week all day to make some other guy rich IS kind of depressing.

THAT'S OKAY. You can do other stuff. You don't have to be a programmer for the rest of your life. You don't. Don't listen to HN people just telling you to take pills and get on with it. Jesus christ.

If you feel like working the same kind of job that is going pretty much nowhere is pointless... IT IS. That's not necessarily depression or some kind of mental illness.

Work on finding things you can do without anxiety. It will likely be something very different from programming, but it will make you happy! That is the key. You must focus on your own happiness. It will be a tough transition, but consider it. Maybe just do some thought experiments (like "what if I were to get involve with art?" or "what if I built an app to help volunteers do . . . ?".

Go slow, but look into very, very different areas for a potential match. Think about YOU and happiness.

The very best of luck to you, my friend!

Thanks @warrenb. Hopefully this helps.

All I can say is that it gets better, involves a combination of fighting back and staying put to weather the storm. I don't have a sure shot advice for you. Good luck.

What changed in the past few weeks? Look at this as possibly a somatopsychic issue. Look at dietary changes or other health changes. But also look at other stressors, like breaking up with your SO or having a falling out with a family member. Depression typically comes from one of two sources: 1) wonky brain chemistry, which is a medical issue or 2) some kind of real world problem that leaves you feeling helpless, often that problem is social in nature.

Best of luck.

Not much has changed. My diet, routine etc is the same. My problem is mainly due to wonky brain chemistry, but I haven't faced such an episode in a couple of years.

Hey, I did not see this yesterday.

I have a very serious medical condition. As a side effect, it sometimes jacks up my brain chemistry suddenly and very badly. I have spent nearly 15 years working to get a handle on it and I have made substantial progress. I am pretty confident something has changed in your life. You just do not know what it is.

There is research linking diet and depression. The most solid stuff concerns the role that certains fats/oils play and the impact they have on brain inflammation.

Look some of that up. Start a food diary. I have a food blog where I talk some about things like that (and I was a mess the day I wrote my last entry): Http://miceats.blogspot.com

If you email me or leave comments, I would be happy to have feedback or questions and you can shape the direction the blog goes to some degree by giving me some feedback.

Best of luck.

Go back to a doctor (preferably a real psychiatrist, rather than a doc in the box type place) and get on a different depression medication. There are an incredible number of combinations and medications that you can get on, each treating depression just a little differently.

For what it's worth, my fiance and I have both had a lot of success with Wellbutrin.

I'm not a doctor, but every symptom you listed sounds exactly like depression. Fix that, and you're golden.

Just to echo the recommendation on exercise. Can you muster the strength to run/walk/rake leaves?

I won't pretend it's THE answer-- but it can help significantly > http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/exercise-and-dep...

Wake up very early, don't take naps, start exercising. This works for me but I'm certainly not trained to give medical advice.

Wow, waking up early helps? I generally find it difficult waking up early.

There is evidence that meditation can help with anxiety/depression. I've experienced depression through varying life circumstances although never clinical depression. In these times of distress i began meditating, and have not stopped as i find it helps me.

Talk to your physician. You should let them know what's going on. Perhaps adjust medication. Suggest talking to them if you are thinking about going off meds (at least have them taper you down so your body doesn't freak out by going cold turkey)

Sounds like you're burnt out and need to develop other interests besides programming.

I am the original OP. I got locked out due to the no procrastination settings...Sorry. I will reply through this account.

If you read this another thing to try is CBT. It gives you a framework to deal with anxiety and bring it back under control.

There are books that you can work through or you can do a course (probably better). CBT is supposed to be very effective against anxiety. It is actually quite a short program (10 to 20 weeks).

EDIT - Fuck throwaways. I am desp_programmer and desp_programmer1.

HN has been of great help to me. I owe it to the community.

Therapy

If you can afford it, take some time off.

bounce