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Comment by liotier | Hacker News Reader

All these debates about housing and transportation in the USA seem to never even approach the idea that high density would solve the problem. Build vertically, build tightly - that is where urban happiness lies... Not in an individual house at the end of some suburb where no one can go anywhere without a car !

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" Build vertically, build tightly - that is where urban happiness lies... "

Most people do not agree. They have always moved to low density areas any time it becomes feasible. This is a constant throughout just about all of human history, and under just about every form of social organization. The wealthy have always had country estates, even in the days of ancient Rome. The nomenklatura of the Soviet Union had their country dachas, etc.

You are getting the cause and effect backward. The car made it possible for people to spread out while remaining employed, and they took advantage of that capability. It didn't force them to do it.

It's called voting with your feet, dude.

This has been shifting. Even though it might still be true for "most" people (>50%) the portion of people preferring urban environments is increasing, and fewer people are leaving cities after starting families.

http://www.planetizen.com/node/77680/do-millennials-opt-citi...

Although that supposed trend seems to be exaggerated--at least in the US. According to this piece http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-millennials-are-less... for example, the actual trend seems to be that a fairly narrow slice of demographics (25-34 with college degrees) mildly prefer living in a few specific dense urban environments like Brooklyn.

Overall there is something of an urbanization trend (especially in emerging economies) but it's not as pronounced as it's often made out to be.

Everyone has their thing, and I definitely see the appeal to urban living when you're young and have time to yourself. Why anyone would want to live in a highrise or in a dense city when they have children, though, over having your own yard or quiet, safe neighborhood to play in, doesn't make sense to me.

Agreed. It's not that millennials are different in any way (preferring high rises vs the McMansions of the Boomer generation), but instead the millennials are putting off children until much later and just don't have many school aged kids yet.

In 5-10 years, they'll be heading out of the cities just like their parents and grandparents did.

That's definitely one interpretation of at least some of the increasing millennial urbanization (such as it is) that I've read. That it's more about delaying moving to the suburbs/buying a house for a variety of reasons including marrying and having children later and the economy (especially of a few years back where of the currently available data is from).

A recent Marketplace podcast discussed this as well. Affordability was a large factor in why the suburbs are still popular.

  “There has been an increase in college-educated young adults living in very dense
  urban neighborhoods — smart young things living in Brooklyn, in downtown
  San Francisco,” said housing analyst Jed Kolko at U.C. Berkeley’s
  Terner Center for Housing Innovation. “But it’s not true of that generation
  overall. Only about one third of 25-to-34-year-olds have a college degree.
  Today they are actually less likely to be living in urban neighborhoods,
  as opposed to suburban areas, than that same age group was in 2000.”

1. http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/young-buyers-want-...

I live in London and always wanted a nice detached house with a small garden. This wish of mine prices me out of London. We are about to buy the above mentioned house in a nice suburban area. Not because we prefer suburban to urban, simply because of the economy of the London property market.

I think the reason for this is that most millennials are still in their 20's and family formation has been delayed by the economic problems by 5 - 10 years. Thus, less 30 year olds have school-aged children versus their parent's generation. In 5-10 more years, I think you'll see more migration out to the burbs as this generation's children reach school age.

I don't think that building high, dense housing is the important part. I think what you need are walkable neighborhoods where all the basic necessities are met in a small area. If you have to drive twenty minutes to get to a supermarket, a school, a restaurant or a bank, there is something wrong with the neighborhood. High density makes it easier to solve that problem, because it makes local businesses more profitable, but it is not strictly necessary. I'm pretty sure that people prefer a small house with a garden to a high-rise if the neighborhoods provide similar infrastructure.

Don't forget work. As much as I love having supermarkets, banks, schools and restaurants within walking distance, the one thing i fear losing more than any of that with an impending move is not being able to walk to work.

Or alternatively, spread out and include good public transportation. Several European countries do this well.

Maybe, but the cost of good public transportation per inhabitant increases as density lowers - as does every infrastructure cost. Density makes excellent public services more affordable.

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