Chinese University Tops MIT in Engineering Rankings
blogs.wsj.com
blogs.wsj.com
Not to me. China bashing on HN is surprisingly common and rewarded with karma. Given that the average HNer doesn't know much about China, I assume the typical cognitive process goes something like "I want to believe this comment => up vote". I personally look forward to the day where we can put nationalism behind us. Also, props to Tsinghua.
China today is on a trajectory of becoming the premier world technological power, simply based on its tremendous energy and drive and respect for learning.
The U.S. and Europe are in decline, by comparison. The U.S. in particular is relying heavily on Chinese and other foreign students to keep its science, math, and engineering graduate programs going. The native U.S. population is lazy and unmotivated by comparison.
And tellingly, increasing numbers of Chinese grads are returning to China to work rather than seeking citizenship in the U.S. Even non-Chinese are flocking to China to start up technology companies, something unheard of a generation or two back.
I too hope this doesn't turn into some kind of cold war.
My bet - I think it's going to be a hot war and I think that's been the plan all along. China was conquered long ago by the West, but they are valued by the powers that be since their people are so easily enslaved. China is going to be the new super power and the US simply won't exist anymore. Just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong.
Oh lord... one is easy to game, and the other is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Oh, wait, you mean you were implying that Tsinghua University was gaming the rankings ...
MIT students, in my experience, have been overrated for years.
Which is actually a really interesting ranking. Not based on academic research whatsoever.
See? I can use anecdotal evidence to offend swaths of people too.
(I'm not saying that US/UK do or don't have the best universities, I'm saying that system of ranking is terrible for so many reasons)
That kind of stuff, and the whole nonsense around the desperate scramble for publications really put me off of a career in academia.
Universities attract students, funding, press and all the other goodies with their reputations. Students then trade on these reputations. It's a big problem overall, and it doesn't have good feedback loops of the kind which will encourage universities to improve.
Also, the more attention the rankings get, the more they get gamed and corrupted.
Here's the thing, say you are looking for a place to study mechanical engineering, it will be difficult to find the new upstart schools that are doing great work. It's even harder to get employers, parents and colleagues to respect it. That's to say nothing of a course attempting to teach a subject like engineering outside the paradigm of Universities altogether.
It's a pickle.
The world is way too big for us to rely on a vague name recognition & reputation system anymore. It's too dynamic to wait for them to self correct and it's way too thirsty for better ways to train and educate to be without a dynamic system where new approaches and institutions can emerge.
Another metric not considered by USNWR is academic freedom. Can students and faculty at Tsinghua use Google? I don't think so. No Google Scholar, no Google Books, not even Search. How ridiculous. Without equal access to the Internet, a fair comparison is not possible. And what if a student published an article complaining about lack of access to some internet resources? End of career.
That said, this evaluation should be a wake up call to American educators that our formerly great academy has deteriorated, brought down by decades of decaying performance in K-12 and lack of energy and commitment in the universities, where many or most of the science and engineering graduate students are foreign born.
I hope this is not a wake up call: what we don't need in academia is more gaming of the publication and citation system! This is a wake up call to not take usnews too seriously.
And I agree with you that we don't need even more gaming of the system; but we definitely need more motivation of K-12 students in the math and science fields.
The US News report just shows who is better at gaming the system. Heck, even MIT has its problems, though you'll find more pockets of genuine interest and capabilities. Tsinghua also has a lot of great researchers, but usually this is inspite of, not because of, the games played to optimize for these metrics.
America has so many good universities but at the same time just a small talent pool.
Even if you compare millionaires to millionaires the quality of life in China is far worse than in the USA. Never trust a communist propaganda. Never ever do that. The gov and chinese in general are known for trying to save face at every occasion and will fabricate anything that can benefit them.
If USA and UK is so bad then why thousands of Chinese are trying to immigrate there ? In Communist regime even if you are good and talented you will become a property of the state and they will use you for their benefit. Do not expect a good quality life but constant abuse for more propaganda and mind control.
No wonder that massive amount of people of Hong Kong are requesting british passports. Because in China you are nothing more than a property of a regime.
This is not acceptable on Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly. Please read the site guidelines and follow them.
And China is far worse than the former Soviet Union because they have more money and more control. Being lower class in China is far worse than in former states of the soviet union.
The thing is that China is a home for a lot of people and is too polluted and crowded because of wealth distribution. If people do not care about the environment, intellectual property and a countless of other things then being rich and filthy rich are too different things.
A wealthy man can walk the streets of european/american cities without worrying too much about its health or not having a space for himself without guards. Do not forget that european / us cities are dwarves compared to Asia in general.
The movie Elysium is a good picture (maybe too exaggerated but hey) of people being wealthy in China.
Yes you can have a good life in a golden cage but it's still a cage.
Second just because you live in Hong Kong or Shenzhen it does not mean you know anything about China. Especially these 2 do not reflect anything at all about China. And that is fine that might be the reason why have you chosen them and not the other places in China.
Third. You do not seem to speak the Chinese language.
Fourth. Just because you have a positive prejudice towards China does not mean you are right.
Fifth. If you would know something about authoritarian regimes and especially China or NK you would know that hiding and punishing beggars is a common practice to save face.
Sixth. Please educate me how country of 1.3bn has a lot less beggars and violent crimes than US a country of 320m.
Seventh. If you have never lived in a communist country you surely can't be aware of propaganda and hiding of crimes. Ask some chinese friends of yours how hiding crimes, especially the violent ones goes in China. How it was in every communist state. You will be surprised.
Eighth. I understand you like China/Chinese more than Americans but do not close your eyes before the crimes of these regimes I am begging you. For all of those that died and suffered in gulags
Ninth. I recommend you to visit countryside and especially the northern region if you have the balls.
Yes you do not see a gun violence in China because guns are banned and are only in possession of military and triads. The most violent crimes are carried by the poorest using knives,shovels or anything they can use. And that is not being reported by anybody. Or do you really believe in country of 1.5bn that it is impossible to hide these crimes ?
In China if you are a white foreigner you can freely walk around drunk because if you go missing it is not that easy to hide the truth from the public.
Guns are US problem hey have you heard of 2nd most brutal shooting ? That happened in Korea a country where even a licensed hunters have to put their weapons in safes in police stations.
The worst mafia in China is its government. I know you do not care about any of these because you live in a relatively rich region but only if you would see millions of poor souls working in China then you would finally understand.
Rich and big cities are not CHINA! They are mostly a relict of past western influence.
There are tons of people (not necessarily rich) prefer living in China than in America. They just care about different things.
As a Chinese citizen living in San Francisco right now, I would say the overall living quality in America is no where near as good as in China. If not for the prosperous software industry here, there is no reason to stay in America at all.
China has its problems but America has its own too. The same goes both for the society and the government. I do feel a lot safer walking down the streets in China, and air pollution has never been a big issue. What you see on news headlines are not what you see everyday.
And air pollution is not problem in China ? Are you kidding me ? Just ask my any korean in Seoul how air pollution from China is not a problem. And THAT IS SEOUL that's being hit by chinese air pollution.
The pollution in chinese cities is too big to not consider it an issue.
Comparing to that I'm bothered a lot more here about the prevalence of guns, drugs, high crime rates, the unfairness in education (how many ivy league students come from poor families?), ridiculously expensive medical system, so many bullshit in the law, government wasting so much money while getting almost nothing done... I'd happily trade air pollution with solution to any of these problems. Sometimes it's just funny to see how Americans could be okay to accept all of that really well, some may not even realize these are all appalling problems, while they still give such a big fuss about air pollution in China.
It's quiet the opposite in fact. People of China have achieved a lot but I am afraid too many of chinese people had to and still have to suffer and distribution of wealth in China is worse than in the other parts of the earth.