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Comment by hugh4 | Hacker News Reader

Paris, as they say, is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Come to think of it, I'm not even that fond of visiting.

I am very grateful that my parents brought me up in a decent-size house with a nice biggish backyard. I can't imagine growing up in an apartment. Particularly in today's world where kids don't play in the park unsupervised. It must be even worse for the parents, who can't say "go play outside!" whenever the kids get rowdy and annoying. I don't think indoor living is good for kids.

For people without children apartments are fine of course, which is why I think the ideal city consists of a combination of a higher-density centre with surrounding low density areas.

People need to quit it with the desire to make everyone else live like a single twenty-something professional.

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> People need to quit it with the desire to make everyone else live like a single twenty-something professional.

On the other hand, if all the twenty-something professionals were allowed to live in the city center of their dreams, with Paris-like population density, and hipster cafes and restaurants in each city block, there would be more room for the suburban sprawl for the families to be closer to the city center.

When the "suburban party" denies the "city hipsters" the dense, walkable neighborhoods, they also force the hipsters to compete for the same suburban estate, which drives prices up and commutes longer, and everyone is worse off as a result.

People who want X for themselves, would actually benefit and get their X cheaper and better, if they allowed other people who want Y get and build their Y, instead of forcing everyone to compete in the market for X.

I bit unintuitive, I understand.

I don't think the "suburban party" is denying any such thing. In cities like San Francisco people who paid a million plus for their townhouse don't want new highrises blocking their view or their light. People who live in suburbs don't care one way or the other.

What's your opinion of how Dallas turned out? There's a whacking great set of huge rings around the city center that are extremely suburban, but a lot of dense "file cabinets for hipsters" closer to downtown, and a fairly functional light rail system.

I think it's precisely the opposite. In a high-density, pedestrian-friendly apartment environment, parents can actually say "go play outside", with kids free to roam around the neighborhood or larger city by public transit, without worrying too much about being run over by cars.

In a typical American suburban environment, "play outside" means play alone in the confines of the backyard, or be shuttled in cars by parents to "play dates", with most roads lacking even sidewalks.

Play where? Even if you're happy letting your kid play unsupervised in the park across the street in a high-density area, in the Paris style cities we're talking about the nearest park is still usually blocks away. You gonna send a five year old strolling through the city alone?

Even then, I live in a high-density area with a park across the street and I'd be hesitant to let kids below ten at least go there unsupervised, if I had them. Whereas if I had a backyard I could tell them hey, go nuts, and peek out the window every fifteen minutes.

Of course I'm not defending streets without sidewalks. I'm defending the sort of place I grew up, which combines quarter-acre blocks and trees and parks with having shops and schools and libraries within walking distance.

Maybe not a five year old, but certainly an 8-9 year old.

I grew up in apartment blocks very similar to the image that was linked elsewhere in this thread: http://lh5.ggpht.com/-zHv1hczQcD4/UdgqTs1G3cI/AAAAAAAAqCI/le...

These were mid-rise buildings connecting together to form protective courtyards, filled with gathering places, playgrounds and mini-parks, inaccessible to cars, where 5-year olds could play, and 10 year olds had the whole city accessible to them thanks to good public transit.

>> I'm defending the sort of place I grew up, which combines quarter-acre blocks and trees and parks with having shops and schools and libraries within walking distance.

That sounds like a pretty rare place though. Walking distance to schools and libraries tells me either pedestrian-friendly high density, or a very small town with not many job options. If it's neither, I'd love to check it out. Where was that, if you don't mind?

Sounds like Minneapolis.

similar experience here. I agree that it's very nice, although we all probably have biases towards the way we grew up :)

I did play outside in that kind of environment because mid-rise houses had internal courtyards big enough to accommodate all the kids. Parents were ok to see us playing there, they were not ok to see us on the street with cars and people passing by.

> Particularly in today's world where kids don't play in the park unsupervised.

That's an American thing. Here kids take the metro and go to school by themselves from age 8, at the most.

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