Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth
theatlantic.com
theatlantic.com
This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudis to expand the masjid, build camps at Mina, allow hotels to be constructed, modernize the facilities, etc. that every person is able to actually perform the rites of hajj at the proper times. Hajj consists of a number of rites that have to be performed in certain places at certain times on certain days. Think about what it takes to organize millions of people trying to do this. It's very different than organizing thousands, or tens of thousands. You have to accommodate all their sleeping arrangements. You have to provide enough space for marketplaces so they can get something to eat. You have to widen the roads, air condition the facilities, make sure each group leaves at their own time, etc.
It's true that the Saudis aren't perfect, and they make mistakes, but my point is that it's easy to get the impression from the massive construction projects that they are just trying to make another Dubai or Olympics. But really, there is a spiritual purpose behind it, not connected to money, and there is also a lot going on behind the scenes that you can't see in the pictures. It would be easier for the Saudis to just restrict the visas to a tiny fraction and not go through with all of the construction and organizing, but they are making the effort as you can see. I know this is not going to be a popular comment here but I'm just trying to offset all the negative comments with some positive.
The Saudis destroyed many sites associated with the early history of Islam to make those expansions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_h...).
It's rather unfortunate that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia as it gives them free reign to preach their Salafi/Wahabi ideologies and no one else.
I come from a Shia family and many of my relatives who have gone to pilgrimage and complained of abuse by the religious police there for being in a different sect.
Kaaba has always been about trade/commerce/money, since well before Muhammad and Islam.
It is not a coincidence that Muhammad's tribe had the control of Kaaba where pagan pilgrims came before Islam to revere their many gods (whose representations (statues, icons, figures, etc.) were placed around Kaaba). And, very conveniently, it remained to be a holy place in Islam where each and every Muslim who can afford it must visit at least once during their lifetime.
That is mythological not truly historical.
In any case, even the non-Muslim Arabs at the time also acknowledged this fact. As such, given that Prophet Muhammad, Peace be upon him, is a descendant of Abraham, Peace be upon him, and both are Muslims, it follows that they would have similar traditions, coming from the same source. Reclaiming the Ka'abah as a place of worship for Muslims is in accordance with this.
The fact that the same sources that assert the existence of figures such as Abraham and Ishmael also state that an angel talked to Ishmael's pregnant mother and that the Sakina (a spirit sent by God) or Gabriel guided father and son to the location of the Kaaba, etc. make this story mythical.
At the same time, we have events that had elements attributed to the supernatural, which did take place, and are historically documented. The two need not be mutually exclusive.
Religion, especially in what's pretty much a theocracy-lite, is very much tied to power and money.
SA is swimming in oil money, so it doesn't need to perform some crass commercialization (although I'm sure the restaurant, transportation, and hotel industry benefit directly), but maintaining and consolidating power is part of this game. Humanity didn't start religion because we felt unusually generous. Its a way to gain power and resources by exploiting various human desires like the need for meaning, the need for afterlife beliefs, etc.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Shi.27a_criticism
Well said.
Besides, reflection of the past is a crucial component of Islam. The pilgrims re-enact rituals from thousands of years ago. You might even say, without faith in ancient stories interpreted from ancient books, there would be no annual pilgrimage to Mecca.
It seems to me the slogan "Islam is the religion for present and future" is designed to explain the giant shopping mall clock, more than any insight or true reflection about Islam.
To build the tower I believe they demolished the prophets mothers house!
(Yet, nowhere as bad as the clock tower, I would say).
But a few things...
(1) The ban on non-muslims is not as tight as portrayed. More than a few westerners have been to mecca, many to advise on hajj matters. There are also legendary stories of non-muslim children being brought on hajj by saudi families. I heard stories from neighbours, things more than rumours, but never met anyone who actually witnessed this.
(2) Lots of the people sleeping rough do so by choice. Many simply do not want pillows and beds during hajj. For them it isn't meant to be comfortable. More hotel-type rooms may help, but it will never get everyone off the streets.
(3) Security is a huge issue. Religious extremists have caused plenty of trouble. The Saudis have large numbers of soldiers hidden just out of sight to quell any repeat.
(4) The clockface is horrible, but that is the style in the country. People who go to Vegas sometimes remark about that style, but it is just a matter of taste. If you were living there it wouldn't seem nearly as bad. The clock itself also serves a purpose. Many pilgrims do not wear watches, most all are suffering jet lag and much of the process is now indoors. So like vegas, it is very easy to loose track of time. The various clocks are all big and horrible, but do serve some function. (It also has to be a mechanical clock, else everyone would insist on arabic numerals, which I've never seen on any digial wallclock.)
(5) The King actually does hajj each year, during the appropriate time. He has guards, but they could do nothing for him in a crush. For a man his age we have to give him some credit.
Like trip advisor but for pilgrims. Wonderful comments.
"They are terrible guys. They gave me wrong transportation and they overcharged me for the airline ticket as opposed to other people.
Avoid at any cost!!!! "
People just like us and many from HN travel to these places and they experience it in a great many ways. Hajj is not a holiday, but it's certainly travel!
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_h...
My guess is that they're doing it to put a Wahabbi stamp on things and erase everything else.
Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?
Your last question is in extremely bad taste - and I say this as a non-believer.
Sorry to burst your bubble but non Muslims in general are only interested in visiting Mecca for the historical value and contents that it holds nothing more.
That's why I warned the OP that there is not much to see as the Saudi Wahabis destroyed virtually everything of historical value in the city and the surroundings in the same fashion ISIS has been doing in Syria or Iraq and even this is becoming a very sensitive topic for Hijazi people, the natives of the region since those Bedouins from the midlands and desert are destroying their heritage while they sitting idle and getting away with it.
I totally agree with GP, it should be open for all, including Non-Muslims, lapsed Muslims and everybody.
A Muslim will enter it knowing its importance, and though he may not be perfect in conduct, he would ought to ask for forgiveness.
Non-Muslims would naturally move about naturally, and end up doing things they do not know the gravity of, and over that not ask for forgiveness (from Allah). This is the reason in plain words.
For the Non-Muslims, my op stays as it is. Just because you are interested in sightseeing Mecca, doesn't mean we undo our own vows. Yes it is a beautiful place, you wanna watch it? Buy the tickets: "There is only one God, and there is no other God, that is the way straight". And you should be gladly allowed to sight see or pray.. whichever you want. Mecca's Hospitality would be yours.
Again, that's a black and white view of things, and violates the live and let live golden rule. Not just now, right after the death of the prophet Islam began to diverge. The Quran, itself was assembled into a book, after his death, during the 1st or 2nd caliphs time.
You should read up on Islamic history. The general populace has had several ebbs and highs in the nature and intensity of their belief, based on context and time.
Islamic history also has had a lot of free thinkers, even in medieval times like Al Ma'aari[1] and Ibn Rushd[2]. I also learnt, that there were liberal Muslims in 15th century Andulus-Spain, from a fascinating book by Tariq Ali[3].
I also read this recent article on 'free thinkers in Islam'[4]
Not sure if you know, the Turkish nobel prize winning author, Orhan Pamuk, also identifies himself as a cultural Muslim.
So you can't wish away the diversity and free thought. Currently we seem to be going through a phase of high tide in intensity of belief. You may be surprised to see it ebbing away in the coming decades. Just my view.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%CA%BFarri
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_of_the_Pomegranate_Tre...
[4] http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/islamic-his...
Abdus Salam, devout Muslim, who quoted from the Quran in his Nobel Prize speech.
Abdus Salam, part of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, declared non-Muslim by the Pakistani Parliament in 1974. Despite being rejected by his own country, and living overseas, he continued to support Pakistani scientists.
Abdus Salam was buried in a cemetery in Punjab, Pakistan, next to his parents' graves. The epitaph on his tomb initially read "First Muslim Nobel Laureate" until the local magistrate forced the words "Muslim" to be removed.
"Not Islam Version A or Version B" my ass. The only way to achieve that purity is by force; use threat of expulsion or death to enforce religious totalitarianism.
Contemplate that.
(edits - seriously, I do. It's fascinating, the hotels, the logistics, the consumerism, the souvenier stalls, the clash of cultures, the clash of what islam means to different people around the world and the Saudi's interpretation of it. And then there's the western food chains, KFC is there, Dunkin Donuts are there, all halal of course).
Non-Catholics can enter the Vatican. Certainly you don't think the Vatican exists only to entertain, do you?
As a core part of the Sikh faith, "the Harmandir Sahib is open to all persons regardless of their religion, colour, creed, or sex." (Quoting Wikipedia.) Do you really think that makes it solely a place for sight-seeing?
Prophet Adam (Peace be upon Him) created the first House of Worship at Kaaba.
During the time of Prophet Nuh (Noah) (Peace be Upon Him), it was in one sense, 'lost'.
Then Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) 'the true' and Prophet Ismail (?) (Peace be Upon them) rebuilt the Kabba again.
Again and Again, Kabba and Mecca with it, were lost (to what?)
Until At last, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) cleaned it for the last time. Removing the 360+ idols placed within.
A interesting story, just Before the time of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is that a certain king vowed to destroy the Kaaba, and plunder the city of Mecca. To which he was roughly told 'The Owner of this House is well capable of protecting it'. The Army of that King was killed by a hailstorm of stones carried by countless birds, a sign for those who believe.
I recall being utterly astonished by your comment. People were murdered for drawing cartoons and you insinuate that it was partially their fault. Shame on you.
1. HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8879215
2. My comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8879389
3. rikacomet's comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8879528
Also, from the guidelines.
> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
While I found this article interesting in itself, it's something that can be interesting to anyone, regardless of its background.
While harmless at first look, this can be an issue if too many content fall into this category.
Then you end up with a reddit clone instead of HackerNews. I'm here to see hacker news, not interesting stuff for anyone.
Oh wait.. /s
I said it IS interesting ... to anyone.
You see the content drive the audience and then the audience drive the content.
Too much broad interesting articles and it's not Hacker News anymore.
The future is a trend line drawn from the past through the present and projected forward in time.
Now look at this article again and project the role of Islamic power and culture into the future. Scary shit if you ask me.