Comment by pasbesoin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pasbesoin | Hacker News Reader

At a number of commerical buildings I frequently, I... frequently see people use the swinging doors located to the side of the revolving door (for ADA compliance, if nothing else). They do this even when there is no traffic at the revolving door.

Often, they will hit the button to automatically open the doors. This is even worse than using the door manually, as the timer that controls the door motion usually leaves the door open for many seconds -- presumably to accommodate a slower user or one with a wider configuration, e.g. a wheelchair -- before beginning to close. Mind you, these are people who appear to be fully mobile and not unduly hindered or handicapped.

Quite often, I'll see people use the swinging doors to exit, where they just hit the crash bar and proceed. Presumably, they find this quicker (by a matter of a second or three) and more convenient.

(The cynic in me says: And after all, if they are even aware of the difference in efficiency, they are not personally paying the heating bill and cooling bills.)

I wonder whether a brief, one page "flyer" version of the linked information could be effective in altering behavior. I wouldn't ask permission to post them; I'd just engage in a guerrilla campaign of slapping them up when and where I can get away with it. Preferably, the flyer would have a professional appearance and the salient information would be encapsulated in an easily scanned sentence or three in large font. There might be more detail below, and hopefully also an eye-catching graphic.

I'm no graphics artist, but maybe I'll give it a go.

I use the side doors - opening them by hand - because revolving doors move more slowly than I like, and it irritates me. It's the equivalent of a "loading..." bar for a website's flash intro - I don't want to deal with it, just get me into the building please.

I use the revolving door whenever possible, because as a kid I used to love going around and around and around in them until my parents got mad and told me to stop dawdling.

I feel like there should be an XKCD for this...

I used to do that too (and I think I was a kid much earlier than you). There was no seal, iirc, they moved much much faster. Somebody along the way figured out the energy saving potential.

I believe there is a speed limiter on modern revolving doors. If I recall correctly it is a "paddle in oil" arrangement whose resistance force is a 4th power of speed.

I do not know why I think I know this, but it seems to be true: http://www.internationalrevolvingdoors.com/IrdManualDoors.ht...

As for "why", I'm sure fast doors both scare people and attract lawyers.

Very often I'll see two sets of doors, which form a small room which gets cold/warm, isolating the rest of the building from the outside. While they may not be as efficient as revolving doors, I wonder where they sit on the curve? Somewhere in the middle?

There are other considerations - swinging doors are less complicated (possibly), take up less room and are easier to lock (again, possibly). They are probably cheaper to construct and maintain as well.

An air lock -- or vestibule.

There are forms of these that are temporary. Some restaurants and bars will put one up in the winter; typically made of heavy canvas rigged across a metal frame, often with clear plastic window inserts to keep users aware of traffic coming in the opposite direction.

Most often, the primary motivation seems to be to increase guest comfort by preventing cold blasts. But they also aid energy efficiency.

I just dined at a nice restaurant that had a set of heavy velvet curtains in a semi-circle around the inside of front door. Not only did it prevent cold blasts to the tables close to the door (I always hate that) it made for a really elegant transitional experience between the dull outside space to the exquisite interior.

My (very) first draft ended up being what I stuck with. I was going to position the text, maybe add a border, etc. But when I printed this out, it seemed a good combination of minimal and to the point.

I realize the value I quote is specific to the MIT environment studied, but I'd rather not complicate things. It gets the point across, and the URL is given for those who want to investigate further.

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B1boia8nkdobOWQzZWEwNTg...

(Not that I expect much credit for this simple approach. But now I have something I can put in my bag, ready for the next opportunity.)

EDIT: Also, the term "use" might be considered vague or otherwise non-specific. But it is brief and fits the intended tone of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). In my mind, "use" doesn't create the mental 'stutter' that "consume" or another verb might. And perhaps its repetition in the second sentence provides a subliminal reinforcement. (While the use of "do" avoids repetition within the same sentence to negative effect. Call the literary criticism police; I'm out of control.)

You don't want people to "consider using the revolving door", you want people to actually use it, "please use the revolving door" (add an arrow indicating which side it is).

Also your opener "swing doors use 8 times the energy" suggests that in some way the door itself directly transforms the energy. I'd go with just the above 5 words and then a para in 12pt (or so) giving details for those who will inevitably wonder why they should change their door usage habits. Depending on your demographic you might want something more like a CTA "Go Green! Use the revolving door".

I think "Swing doors waste ..." is more accurate. And perhaps easier to grasp. Doors don't _use_ energy, unless they're motorized.

I was attempting to address this in my "literary criticism moment". "The average Joe" is, in my thinking, unlikely to be this specific in their analysis. "Use" gets the point across without invoking more complex topics (what does "consume" or "waste" mean) and/or words that may already be politically and emotionally loaded.

As for the "Please consider" part (responding to the other response in this branch of the discussion tree), I didn't want to be "telling" anyone what to do. I thought it would be more productive / invoke a more positive response to ask them to think things through for themselves. Also, since I'm not the building owner nor manager, it's not really my place to dictate policy. I'm making a suggestion to the individual reading the sign.

I don't go into more detail on the sign, because detail -- or the impression of same -- tends to put people off. If anyone's really interested, the cited URL is pretty simple and "MIT Energy Initiative" is pretty easy to remember and google. (Also/instead, maybe I was just lazy.)

Thanks for the feedback, though. Valid points. I'm just explaining my reasoning, not seeing them as invalid.

I know of a university cafeteria that simply puts up a “Use the revolving door” sign on the swing door. It’s pretty effective. Nobody will stop you if you use the swing door, but hardly anybody does use it.

My office building has the same set-up (2 pairs of swinging doors, 2 revolving door, 1 button-triggered door) and the same problems. I see a lot of people coming in through the powered door and exiting through the swinging doors. There are signs already posted saying something to the effect of "For energy efficiency, please use revolving doors." That apparently doesn't work well enough.

How about a gentle, relatively quiet but discouraging audio tone that activates when the swinging door opens?

Something like "uh uh", "uh oh", or "wah wah ~waaaah~" that is audible within, say, a x=20 foot radius. Maybe triggered only on subsequent usage within a y=10 minute window.

One might argue it discriminates against the handicapped, or causes them unnecessary discomfort. I would draw an analogy to seatbelt reminder tones in cars. They cause unnecessary discomfort to everybody but are so mild as to be worth it, overall.

Everyone can stop the seat belt reminder by putting on their seat belt. Handicapped people can't use a different door.

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