Is That Really a Cappuccino? | Hacker News Reader

Is That Really a Cappuccino?

nytimes.com

13 pointszabramow25 comments

I made a brief foray into coffee snobbery about three years ago. I quickly got lost in all the permutations of espresso machines, grinders, roasters, beans, etc. and so I decided I should get myself a baseline of what a "proper" espresso should taste like. Fortunately, at the place I worked at the time we had a (supposedly) top-of-the-line espresso machine and several resident coffee geeks, including one who was actually from Italy. I asked their advice and obtained a bag of what were supposedly the best beans in town, and brought them in to the office.

To make a long story short, several hours and I don't know how many batches of espresso later, none of us had managed to make even a single cup that was remotely close to being drinkable. So I got a $100 Keurig machine, and never looked back.

Still, when I'm in Italy, I can go to any coffee shop and get an espresso that is absolutely delicious. So the Italians definitely know something I don't.

Grind, pressure, volume. Keep two of those constant and you can tune the third. It's really not as hard as coffee snobs pretend it is.

I believe that water temperature is extremely important as well.

Sure - but the OP said they had a top-of-the-line espresso machine, so I took that as a given. Similarly, fresh beans are vital, but the OP said he/she had just bought them.

That's right. I went to the particular store and bought the particular ridiculously expensive beans recommended by the coffee geeks. We did the experiment the next day.

There are at least six degrees of freedom: grind, pressure, volume, water temp, beans, and roast. That's a lot of possible combinations. And my whole point was that despite making my best effort to control all six of them, the coffee still didn't come out good. Not just not good, but actually terrible. Undrinkable. No one could figure out what was going wrong.

What I do know is that I can get consistently good coffee out of my Keurig, and consistently awesomely great coffee in Italy, but nearly nowhere else in the world (and I've been to a lot of places). So it must be possible to control the process. The Italians can't just be getting lucky. But I have no idea what the magic formula is. Maybe it's the water. (Oh no! A seventh degree of freedom!)

Has it gotten that bad that we care about what coffee dispensers and drinkers believe to be a true cappuccino or not? Not for nothing, but this frothy fluff. Who cares, serve what you like and drink what you like, but please don't make it out to be anything more than superficial preference.

People don't pay that much money for caffeinated frothy fluff - they pay for the whole experience (consciously or not), and part of that is the belief that what you are drinking is authentic...

My espresso machine was one of the best purchases I have made. I can have straight espresso or any variation of frothed milk and coffee that I can imagine. I use store brand coffee and milk and it is delicious. Its worth investing in if you care about it and I drink coffee almost every day, so something I think is worth investing in.

For sure, totally agree with you. But I think there are many more important things a publication like that could spend its time on. It's not as if one or the other is probably better; one or the other is better by influenced preference. I mean, normally people tend to avoid bitter flavors, but we've conditioned ourselves to like it.

Which espresso machine did you purchase? Does anyone know if getting an inexpensive one is somehow bad?

I've worked/studied in four engineering firms, with academics and engineers who understand trade-offs and know the meaning of the word "satisficing".

Independently, six of us ended up buying the same Breville espresso machine "The Dual Boiler". It's about half the price of the equivalent Italian dual boiler machines, and about twice the price of entry level machines. Yes, it looks like something Breville would make, but despite that, it performs like an ECM, Rancilio, or Vibiemme machine.

If you're looking to make espresso drinks, going too cheap will be an exercise in frustration. Cheaper machines have limitations you need to work around and make it harder to get consistent results. Most people just getting started will simply give up. If your budget is less than $500, get a Nespresso. It makes a better drink than the other pod systems and beats most non-specialty shops (it can't touch a good shop or something you can make with a good machine and practice).

If you want to go further than this, the following combinations provide a very good value:

Gaggia Classic + Breville Smart Grinder Pro (~$500 total)

The Gaggia Classic is considered entry level to make good espresso by many people. I started with this and it can make a good drink, but you cannot make back to back drinks and foaming milk well is more difficult than on pricier machines.

Breville Dual Boiler + Barazta Vario (~$2000 total)

After using the above setup for a while, I upgraded to this combination. It is considered one of the best values if this is your price range. Frothing milk well is much easier than on the Gaggia Classic, and its larger boiler and electronic controller provide better temperature stability.

If you want something halfway between a semi-automatic and a fully automatic, the Breville Oracle has received very positive reviews in the coffee community, even by people who came in wanting to hate the level of automation it can bring.

Don't skimp on the grinder, get very fresh beans from a specialty roaster, and then plan a week or two learning curve. If you're interested, http://www.home-barista.com/forums/ has a lot of information.

Regarding milk, in my opinion no consumer machine will give you enough steam pressure to create good microfoam.

There are electric milk frothers from Breville and Nespresso that rotate a metal frother to run air through the milk. The result is sort of microfoamy (but usually more like soap-foamy), but doesn't have the particular flavour that you get from steamed milk.

I'm (notoriously, among my friends, and probably obnoxiously too) finicky about milk froth quality, and the best solution I have found is a stovetop frother.

You have to heat the milk to the right temperature (the steam wand actually works great for this), and then use the plunger for 10-15 seconds. Weirdly enough, the result is almost perfect microfoam. This one is great:

http://www.amazon.com/HIC-Stainless-Steel-Frother-14-Ounce/d...

A proper cappuccino is 2 parts gin to 1 part vermouth... hang on, that's a martini.

Surely you mean 12:1

2:1 is the ratio for a gin and tonic :)

In the UK, a cappucino has cocoa sprinkled on top. Except for "artisan" coffee shops, that's the biggest difference to a cafe latte. Basically if you want a small, strong, milky coffee from any of the big chains (e.g. Costa, Starbucks, Nero) you need to order a flat white; and probably pay more for it.

Same in Australia.

I'm going to get flagged for this, but there are plenty of recipes named incorrectly in the US. Just ask for a pepperoni pizza in Italy, and see what you get.

Or imagine the surprise if ordering a "Latte" gets you a glass of milk.

>>The new enthusiasm for the flat white, a drink made of espresso and milk that seems to have originated in Australia or New Zealand, is particularly nettlesome to Mr. Nye. “You put 10 people in a room who claim to be an authority on the flat white, you’re going to get at least five different opinions on what it should be,” he said. “People are trying to make the whole process intimidating to the consumer.”

What the bloody hell is this drongo talking about? Flat whites are the most average drink in Australia. Flat whites in Australia intimidate no-one. We're intimidated by single origin long blacks and cold drip.

Getting a flat white in the UK is truly painful (as a recently emigrated NZer)

Coffee places in the UK often get the milk wrong, so most drinks are going to be painful.

If you go to a big chain there's more chance they've had training in steaming the milk properly. But then you have to put up with their roast (starbucks) or lack of wifi (costa).

And even then some of them are real branches (had all the training) and others are franchised branches (use the branding but have different prices and far less training).

But a bad coffee from a chain is still going to be very much better than the instant you'll be offered in many places.

It seems like most coffee shops (..that I've tried along the pacific coast) have no idea how to pull an espresso shot and will instead just brew a very bad strong shot of coffee.

Ordering a cappuccino has generally been interpreted as a pile of light milk bubbles on top of "less milk than the normal latte".

On the one hand food in US is just amazing, because you have so many options (I miss though my home country's food and ingredients). On the other hand though, coffee here is just so so bad and I don't understand why.

When going to a coffee shop and ordering an espresso and frothed milk, most prefer a certain texture and taste. It would be useful to have an agreed upon language to describe this preference. The current language we use seems to have very inconsistent results.

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