Ask HN: Google recruiting – Asking for current compensation | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Google recruiting – Asking for current compensation

24 pointsNemant33 comments

I've interviewed with Google and I may be potentially receiving an offer tomorrow.

However, before they make me the offer (or rejection) the recruiter has today asked me about the full details of my compensation at my current employer (big tech company and Google competitor). I haven't replied yet.

What should I do? I'm afraid that giving my current compensation away to my future employer will jeopardise my chances of negotiating and potentially getting a better offer than what I could get otherwise.

Anybody have any experience with this type of situation?

View on HN

Totally different market (E. Europe) so I don't think this applies but:

I was in the exact spot about 7 years ago; I wanted to change jobs, but after I revealed my salary I was getting a +10% offer. Until a friend told me -- NEVER, EVER, EVER reveal your current salary, either don't reveal it, or just... lie. So I figured, hey, none of these companies actually required any proof of my current salary, I won't make a written statement, so... why not. And the next time, I lied, I said my salary was 40% higher than it actually was. And that's how I got a 50% salary increase :|

If you are prepared to lie to your future employer for financial gain from the very start, it gives an indication as to your integrity as an employee.

It's pretty commonly held to be acceptable to lie when rectruiters ask you an illegal or unethical question and not answering would work against your interests. It's kind of tit-for-tat.

(Whether you think the pay thing qualifies is another thing. But it's close enough that I wouldn't ask that question)

Had a hearty laugh there.

Employers aren't benevolent entities. You always have an adversarial relationship with regards to compensation and benefits.

I can't upvote this enough.

If I was an employer asking for your previous salary, the very next request would be for proof.

That would be very reasonable. But it never happens here, that's why I said it's a different market, and that's why I also lied. Bullshit question obtains bullshit answer.

I guess in a perfect world I would have said something along the lines "I'm not allowed to/I'm not confortable revealing that information", or if I really had balls I would have said the truth and STILL ask for 50% more.

But I feel I would never have gotten 50% without lying, which is kind of sad.

Honest question, why? What role does someone's previous pay play into what they're worth to a new employer?

Well, because at best it confirms and solidifies a low anchor for their side of the negotiation, and at worst reveals them as a liar with whom the employer may not want to work.

Just an FYI for any one reading this. Here in USA, when Apple does background checks, they also get your saary from former employee Source: A friend who recently joined Apple

The best salary negotiation advice I've ever received (aside from improving my BATNA[1]) is to push till after I get to the offer stage of the interview. That way they already like me, they've gone through the process, and they are willing to try to meet me somewhere reasonable. So you're already a step ahead of the game in that sense.

I've used something to the effect of "I'm sure you have a range in mind for this position that's commensurate with fair market rates. And I'm willing to be a team player and probably meet you somewhere along those lines. Can you tell me roughly what you're targeting for this role?"

Most recruiters will be fairly candid with you. They'll offer something at the lower to mid range of the target band. At least that'll be a ballpark. From there, you need to decide if it's worth pursuing the process based on whether you'd be happy accepting what they told you + whatever you might be able to negotiate on top of it.

The downside to this approach is that you allow them to anchor [2], in other words, your continuation of the process implies an inherent acceptance of the reasonableness of what they quote you. (And this is Google, after all, so they are likely to suggest something pretty reasonable in the first place.)

There is no upside to quoting your current salary, and it is almost never a dealbreaker if you punt on answering.

[1] BATNA = Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement. In simple terms, this is your fallback option. The best fallback option is the strongest market price you can get independent of this offer. This isn't an invitation to shop an offer you receive, but rather, an establishment of your market value. A soft offer from another firm, ideally prior to going down the line with Google, is a form of BATNA. If you have no other options at the moment, then your current salary becomes your BATNA by default.

[2] An anchor is a frame of reference established by the first person to throw out a number. A ballsy approach would be to anchor high right off the bat. Sometimes this works. Sometimes it backfires. I wouldn't suggest a bold anchor unless you know what you're doing. I also would caution against a high anchor if you know it's unreasonable relative to your best guess at the band this position occupies.

> "I'm sure you have a range in mind for this position that's commensurate with fair market rates. And I'm willing to be a team player and probably meet you somewhere along those lines. Can you tell me roughly what you're targeting for this role?"

* This is solid advice. Keep in mind that for recruiters processing candidates is a daily routine. They'll be evaluating you for managerial transparency and probably guess based on your experience and skills your current compensation level. That data point serves as just other market benchmark. They know beforehand, making an attractive offer for you to move will require at least a 10-20% bump.

Sometime employers try to beat this logic by saying..."when we are making hiring decision, we want to move very fast and have all the information ready. Thats why I want you to give your salary info right away"

I don't know how to say NO to that.

Honestly, I'd be scared off by a line like that. That tells me the employer wants to play games with you in an attempt to minimize your compensation.

Good companies and good recruiters aren't trying to minimize you per se. They want to hire the best people, and they know that the best people have a decent sense for market rates and aren't going to settle for that sort of line.

Try to do your research on comps and industry standards beforehand, so that least you're reducing some information asymmetry going into the process with the recruiter.

In my experience, you'll actually gain respect for asking about their ranges. It shows you have experience and know your worth. It also establishes you as someone who's been around the block and is no stranger to job offers and the way they really work. This is what separates the entry-level candidate from the managerial-potential candidate.

Often the reviewer is an engineer etc who is just trying to fill in the boxes. They aren't gaming you; they are more likely a pawn.

The way to say no, is to say no. "I'm not going to tell you my salary history; that pigeonholes me, and makes the unfair assumption that my utility to you is identical to my utility to my last employer. Lets talk about how you value this position. Can you tell me your salary range for others in similar positions here?"

> I don't know how to say NO to that.

Start by saying, OK great...Tell me more. Define (without being flip) fast? Days, Weeks, Months? Tell me about the process, who are the individuals that make-up the interview committee?, decision makers involved?, WHO is exactly is the final decider?

I think you're right about anchoring. It can work, but it's tricky. I think one of the biggest pitfalls is quoting a number significantly greater than what the employer is thinking and raising question of why you're interested in this much lower paying job.

Depends on how badly you want this job. In my opinion, don't worry about what they may offer you whether they know your current salary or not. You should first decide what you want in terms of a salary as most of us have an idea of what we want. Then pad it up a little to leave room for negotiation.

Then tell the recruiter "My current salary is $current_salary but I would need ($expected_salary + $pad_amount) to consider joining. Is that in your range ? ". If the difference between your expected salary and current salary is huge, that is not your problem. You stick to what you want as long as it is reasonable within the market of course.

Let's use a specific example. Here are the scenarios:

    $current_salary = $100,000
    
    av. market salary = $130,000 (based on your research)

    $expected_salary = $130,000

    $pad_amount = $5000 (keep this low)

"Recruiter, I currently make $100,000 but I would like $135,000 based on my research and market rate for someone with my skills and experience. Is this in the range offered by Google ?"

By asking this, you are now taking the focus away from the fact that you asked for a big raise. You are now smartly getting into the offered range discussion and showing that you are asking for what you are worth.

Why would you ever tell a recruiter how much you're currently making?

I have been through this several times. There's never any advantage to you revealing your current salary. No company is ever going to reject you because you didn't tell them your current salary. So just politely tell the recruiter that you don't want to reveal it. If they insist, just tell them what your salary expectation is (this should give them an idea of what kind of offer you'd be willing to accept which is all they should care about).

I believe the way Google's hiring and compensation committee's work makes it so that short of bluffing your current compensation, not disclosing your comp is equivalent to saying you currently make $0.

In my case, I was already being paid well going into Google's offer process, but considerably below Google's band for the level I got approved for. I gave them my comp and they beat it by a large margin, to the point where they clearly weren't considering my existing comp. So I think if you just refused to answer, they'd give you the minimum in the band and wait for a counter or acceptance.

Two further points that I think are relevant for a minority of candidates:

For folks who are L3/L4 or L4/L5 marginal who may get bumped up a level based on existing comp, if anything you'd rather be underleveled to start. There's so much to learn at Google and so many of the folks around me are so damned talented that I'd feel like even more of an impostor if my comp history brought me up to a level I was not at. Some anecdotes from Quora are at [1].

Secondly, there is some lore about high compensation plans (HCPs) at Google. If you believe you are paid well towards the higher end or above what Google pays for your band, you can Google around for this to get some stories of what it's about. This didn't apply to me and I don't know of anyone in this situation so I can't speak to it.

[1] https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-negotiate-a-higher-job-level-...

(I've was in this situation last year) First off I strongly doubt what you say will impact your hire/no-hire decision, if you are in the offer stage then that's good news. Why not just say you'd prefer to see their starting offer? If (in the unlikely chance) it's under what you are getting now you can disclose this information after. It's a pretty mechanical process and as long as you are polite about it they won't hold a grudge against you if you ask.

"What should I do? I'm afraid that giving my current compensation away to my future employer will jeopardise my chances of negotiating and potentially getting a better offer than what I could get otherwise."

Your gut feeling is absolutely right. If you name your current compensation you'll get X + 10k, cause why not? Isn't that enough? Aren't you grateful to have a wonderful opportunity to work at Google? Don't you know there is a line at the door, just take the offer already!

Thats what the recruiter is going to say, and likely not through the email - but on the phone, so they have you on the spot. I'd recommend telling them you accept market based compensation for the position you're getting hired to + 10k instead. If they push - make it big. 150k. 200k. why not? If they like you enough to hire you, telling them a big figure won't jeopardize your offer.

If you're not comfortable disclosing salary history to the recruiter, an honest "I am not comfortable disclosing that information" is appropriate. The truth is well engineered.

Good luck.

Never ever reveal it. It WILL weaken your negotiating position. You will very likely get a worse offer and worse ultimate package by revealing any previous compensation info, and recruiters know this. Experienced recruiters have people being reluctant to reveal this information, and have experience pushing back on it. Practice being nice and still not revealing it. That is important.

If they only will go on with the process if you tell them past salary, move on or make a choice- you really want this job, and will take it for less money because of the experience/ location/ technology/ coworkers/ environment/ etc.

Start with other questions as a reply.

* Level / Reporting structure / promotion prospects (left behind, or upcoming)

* Scope of work - especially relevant when getting hired up, or into a newly formed team

* Exposure within the organisation

* Medical care

* Relocation assistance

* Housing allowance

* Travel and food allowance

...as many as you can think of

Be straight that you'd like to save salary to the last thing to discuss. That does nothing other than to show you're focused on the opportunity. Ask these in interview if possible. Establish first, for yourself, this is a move worth making. And by doing so, it is not a jump for cash.

Then, when asked again, ask what a reasonable expectation would be. If asking a hiring manager, they might be nervous as they don't actually know the salary bands, if asking HR, they might not want to disclose as the hiring manager hasn't made it clear enough to them how much they want you. Information asymmetry exists within an employer, too.

The rest, what jonnathanson said.

It depends on how much you want the job and how much risk you're willing to take. I usually tell the truth on comp, but add "I'm only willing to leave for X".

HR at google will try to negotiate no more than 10-15% for your offer(if this is entry to mid level position) If you really want to negotiate a better offer, you will to include not just your base but your package including stocks, benefits etc in your package to give them a holistic number. Base salary is only a piece which usually get 10-15% boost, but other benefits usually get ignored. You can negotiate on these both to get what you intend to negotiate with

Ask them what their range is, without telling them your current salary. If they insist, say something like "That's not particularly relevant. It would take $X for me to take the job."

That way you don't have to lie about what your current salary is, but you don't give away information that is not in your best interest to give. You try to get them to give away information, which is great if it works, but you have a next move if it doesn't.

You can say, if needed, "My current contract forbids me to reveal my salary [almost certainly true], and I take my responsibilities very seriously."

Why are you even asking this? Don't tell them what you're currently making. What business of theirs is that? Giving them that information will only give them additional leverage in the negotiations.

just be confident with nothing to lose and assess what the currency is with people around your experience level and ask for that amount.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com