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Comment by scottmcdot | Hacker News Reader

Just tonight, my mother checked into an Airbnb in Vienna, Austria. She sent me photos of the bed which did not have new sheets, the towels which were not fresh, a band aid on the floor and some rubbish bins full of cigarettes and ash. The apartment was overall pretty dirty. The host's contact phone number goes straight to message bank (I also tried many times) and the host is not answering emails.

In this situation, what do you do?

She's travelling alone and in her 50s and as you can imagine, she's pretty upset. I decided to get her a hotel and called her an Uber. I then called Airbnb and they said they will attempt to contact the host and they will get back to us.

She wouldn't know what to do without me and if I weren't available, she'd probably end up wandering the streets at night looking for a hotel because she'd be too upset to return to the Airbnb place.

I think for now, I will stop recommending Airbnb.

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> Just tonight, my mother checked into an Airbnb in Vienna, Austria. She sent me photos of the bed which did not have new sheets, the towels which were not fresh, a band aid on the floor and some rubbish bins full of cigarettes and ash. The apartment was overall pretty dirty. The host's contact phone number goes straight to message bank (I also tried many times) and the host is not answering emails.

AirBnB is getting an abysmal reputation in Vienna because what seems to be happening is that lots of people who are not even from Vienna put their rentals on AirBnB. We had someone in our house who did exactly that with all the nice side effects you get from that (strangers in your corridors etc.).

I'm pretty sure AirBnB will have to do something actively there because regulation of that space could instantly kill AirBnB in Austria.

Back in May I went to Barcelona with a friend. We booked the apartment with Airbnb. Among other issues (the address Airbnb gave us was wrong, and had to wonder the streets for a couple of hours with no response from the host, then the host turns out to be a real estate broker of some sort)... once we found the place at 10pm, it turns out that the beds had no sheets, and the broker asked us for €15 for "fresh" sheets. I found this to be a real abuse... and the real problem with Airbnb: lack of quality control of product and service.

The reviews were all very positive, so I think this may have been because the host has been caught up somewhere or has been busy with something. But it's still very irresponsible.

I managed to find the host's Facebook and I would say he is around 24 years' old and studying at a university in Vienna. Had I known this, I probably would have told my mother to look elsewhere.

Yeah, the problem is that people review based on their expectations. A beautiful vacation home and a ratty student flat can both get 5 stars, depending on who's visiting.

You don't think the price would make a difference between the two places?

I recently used airbnb for the first time and I specifically looked for reviews that said the place matched the pictures, google street view, did a google search on the condo name, vrbo, emailed the host and even got direct phone numbers in return

Many of the reviews were from middle-aged people so I thought this was a good sign.

So none of the reviews mentioned the 15 euro sheets charge? Did you leave a review stating that it was a dumb charge and rate accordingly?

After booking did you contact the host through AirBnB ahead of time and ask them to verify the address and give you the quickest directions to the apt?

It would be nice if all of this would be automatic, but you are dealing with individuals that may or may not understand how to be a host yet.

Here's a recipe for having AirBnB experiences that don't suck:

1. Don't make saving money a prerequisite.

Nobody is renting out their place in order to save you money. You get what you pay for.

2. Book early.

The good hosts in prime cities book up months out. You don't want to be in a situation where you have limited choices and have to lower your standards.

3. Only book with hosts who have many positive reviews.

See above, and never break this rule.

4. Try to stay at least a week.

It's business. When you represent a grand or more to your hosts, they treat you accordingly. But when the hassle inherent to renting to you is barely worth the $200 or so you're paying, service will suffer.

Any time I've broken any of these tenets I've wished I'd just booked a hotel.

So, if you're not saving money, why would you go with AirBnB at all?

Better experience? I'm not saying that's actually something you get with AirBnB, but thinking something different than the typical hotel-style experience might be better is certainly one of the reasons that has driven users to alternative rental systems in roughly the same space, like VRBO.

Better experience than a hotel or serviced apartment? Good luck with that! Hotels and serviced apartments are literally designed from the ground up for a great customer experience. Some random person's house or apartment is just not going to be able to compete on customer experience.

Sometimes it is just a better experience staying a real apartment or home instead of a hotel. For example, you can pick up local ingredients and cook your own food. You can get a private space with multiple separate bedrooms.

You say "serviced apartment"--is that a European thing? I've never heard of it. If I was traveling I would look to AirBnB or VRBO to find places that are not hotels.

In Australia you get serviced apartments everywhere. They are basically apartments that get serviced (cleaned, new linen etc) regularly like hotel rooms. You get separate bedrooms, kitchen, etc. just like a normal residential apartment.

Example: http://www.questapartments.com.au/

For many of the same reasons you'd stay at a regular Bed & Breakfast: location, amenities, personal touches, etc.

> 1. Don't make saving money a prerequisite.

> 2. Book early.

> 3. Only book with hosts who have many positive reviews.

> 4. Try to stay at least a week.

I have had two separate hosts cancel > $2,000, month-long reservations. We booked months in advance and only with hosts that had several positive reviews. We were not choosing places primarily by price as we gave up our expensive SF apartment to live full-time on the road.

I agree that these suggestions are good guidelines, but even following them I have had a miserable experience with AirBnB. These days, I prefer to just stay in hotels - especially for work-related travel.

I'm doing the same thing, living out of AirBnB rentals. The best places are actual homes where the owner lives some part of the year. Bookshelves are filled with the books they love and art they appreciate hangs on the walls. Sitting on the couch is relaxing, working at the desk is productive and the kitchen is properly equipped. The owner has a regular housekeeper. Worry-free regular cleaning is easily arranged at a reasonable price.

The bad places are trying to compete with low end hotels. The owner - if they even actually own the place - has put the in bare minimum. Second hand furniture, none comfortable. Lightbulbs are out, wear and tear all over the place. There's hardly any plates, glasses, or cutlery. What is provided is mismatched and worn down.

It can be very difficult to tell the difference because of how places are staged for photos. Asking a lot of detailed questions before booking is very helpful, but even then it's impossible to win every time.

That's a good litmus test.

What has frustrated me most is the lack of repercussions to hosts who behave badly. For instance, as a guest, if I were to cancel my $2k trip 48 hours before arrival, I would still have to pay for it. I had a host do exactly that - cancel a $2k trip that had been booked for months, 48 hours before I got off the plane with a backpack and no place to go. The host saw minimal fallout - basically they were not allowed to rent those dates out to someone else.

We were literally unable to find another place in this small-ish town to stay so we had to change flights to a different city last minute. Not cheap. If hosts had similar financial commitments to guests, I suspect that would eliminate a whole swath of terrible hosts, mostly in your second (cheap hotel) category.

That sucks. I've been lucky not to have any last minute cancellations by host so far. A lot of hosts list on multiple sites, so in your case there might have simply taken a better offer via another site.

UPDATE:

This is part of a response from Airbnb customer service, which has no apologies for the situation and sounds like they're leaning towards defending the host.

"We got the news from [host] that the place is clean and ready to welcome you.

In order to claim a refund we will need to receive documentation regarding the cleanliness issues. At this point there is no confirmed hosting standards violation therefore we will not be able to penalise our host and refund you."

Not defending the host's actions or AirBnB in any way here, but if you're not capable of getting a hotel on your own, then you probably shouldn't be traveling to foreign countries alone.

Edit: well, that was unpopular. Am I wrong, or just saying it inartfully?

You're being inartful :-) but, yes, when I read that comment my reaction was that, at the very least, a conventional business hotel would have been a far more sensible choice.

I tried to mitigate that with the leading phrase, but this would be far from the first time I was an insensitive jerk.

You're right, but it's still something they should account for. Some people just fall apart under stress and have no interest in resolving that before doing things they have no business doing. At the end of the day, right or wrong, those people are going to speak badly of your service.

Yes, totally agreed there. A service like AirBnB should be able to handle all sorts of people, even those who aren't prepared to seek new lodging at a moment's notice in a strange city.

I'm 34, capable as the next guy and would probably have difficulty re-booking a room, in a foreign country while also being "homeless". In fact, during summer months I'd have difficulty booking a room 5 min from my house last minute.

I agree. It was 5pm and I had my laptop in front of me so I could quickly call hotels in the area to see if they were available. By around the 8th ok-looking hotel, I had found one that had a room available. This would be very difficult for my mother on her slow iPhone 3GS.

Interesting point. I think I'll be sure to carry a paper travel guide (Lonely Planet, etc.) when travelling internationally just for the hotel reviews and phone numbers in case of problems.

10 years ago, when travelling internationally, my first step when arriving in a city was to park myself at a payphone in the train station and start calling places.

I've gone to foreign countries without any kind of booking at all. Just walked door to door until I found a suitable hostel. No big deal.

If you want a guaranteed excellent hassle-free experience, pay $300 a night to stay at a nice hotel. AirBnB is not for you.

You're right on the money. So are the other things you said elsewhere in this conversation. Picked up some downvotes, did you? Not surprising, the concept of personal responsibility is most definitely unpopular.

AirBnB is not a hotel, and anyone who treats it that way is going to have a bad time. A hotel is an institution with enough resources and redundancy that multiple members of it staff could literally die and customers wouldn't even notice.

AirBnB != the host AirBnB has introduced you to. The host is just some guy. AirBnB support is not in any way, shape, or form the same concept as taking up your problem with the manager at a hotel.

And yet, so many people expect AirBnB to resolve problems just like that.

This is hilarious! You were bitten by one unregulated system and then, to fix the issue, you called another unregulated system! Your poor mother.

Wait, you had a problem with AirBnB so you called Uber? Why not you know, an actual taxi to take her to an actual hotel??

Uber allows me to see where she's being taken and I've always had good Uber experiences in Vienna.

Uber has far more control and safety with their supply than Airbnb does, even more so compared to Taxis in foreign countries.

There are plenty of countries where taxis work well and are perfectly fine. Uber was specifically founded to adress a broken taxi market in certain US cities. It's almost completely useless in a lot of countries where the same problem with taxis simply didn't exist. In those countries, Uber is an unregulated, not cheaper alternative that isn't as tried and true.

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